One Tiny Battle in the Mommy Wars

Most people, when they talk about the "mommy wars" are discussing the endless debate about whether or not it's better to be a stay-at-home mom or a work-outside-the-home mom. There's the shaming of "oh my god, you've "opted out" and are now bringing down all women everywhere." Then there is the lengthy discussion about "who makes a good mother." Then there are the "but I thought being a mom was an important job but now everyone thinks I'm boring" articles.

But I don't want to talk about any of THOSE aspects of the "mommy wars". I want to talk about the dynamics of the story hour.*

Since I wrote about my first story hour experience, I have gone to five story hours at four different libraries. Why so many? Well, I'm lucky enough to live in a large urban area and have probably a dozen libraries or more within ten miles of my house. Also, because I know Tori needs to spend more time around other kids and this is a great way to do it, and I want Tori to value libraries the way I do. But the real reason is because hardly anyone speaks to me at any of them, and I keep hoping I'm going to find the perfect fit.

Here are the stats and a brief accounting of each library:

Library 1

Located in the center of my inner-ring very old suburb, this one had the smallest attendance with only about ten parents and kids. While my town is demographically about 50% African American and 50% Caucasian (with a smattering of other races), two thirds of the children and parents present were white. Mostly moms present, but there was one dad. The story "hour" consisted of three books and three songs, with books and songs alternating, and a lovely and engaged story time coordinator. The parents all sat with their kids in a circle and participated in the activities (singing, clapping, mooing, etc). After story time, everyone hung around and the kids all played with the library-provided toys and books. This was my most friendly experience; almost every mother chatted with me a bit, although during play time the group split clearly along racial lines with the African-American moms going off to their own corner. Tori was mostly well behaved, not hitting or grabbing too much (with the major exception, of course, being the binky stealing episode).

Library 2

Located the next town over, another old inner-ring suburb, but one significantly more well-to-do than mine, and much less racially diverse (in fact, most folks in this town are white Catholics). This story hour happens to be at my library of choice (featuring the best book selection for adults, and cool trans-gendered librarians). This story hour was huge-- 32 kids and moms--and everyone was white, white, white. Here we were all shuttled off into special room for story hour, and the format was again three stories and songs alternating and the reader was enthusiastic and engaging. All the mothers eagerly participated, singing along and clapping, etc. The only mother that spoke to me at any length was also there for the first time, and a bit worried because she'd brought her three-year-old daughter to the "infant" story time and was afraid it would upset people. All other mothers ignored me completely, even when I spoke to them directly (all I got was faint smiles). Tori was very good and danced and sang and clapped and didn't steal any toys or binkys.

Library 3

Located two towns over, in an outer-ring suburb where all the big chain stores live, this one is in a solidly middle-class neighborhood. The format again included books and songs, but also included some counting games and other things, and was also in a separate room from the main children's section. About 25 kids and moms (and the same one dad that came to Library 1) were there and the group was almost all white but with two Indian moms and kids. This library offers two story hours, one at 10am and another at 11am, nearly every day of the week and has two librarians (additional bonus--a playground right next door). Who spoke to me? The two Indian women, and another mom with a ten-month-old daughter (her baby was wearing a black t-shirt--the only time I've seen a girl at these story hours not wearing pink or flowers or frills--and that includes Tori). Everyone else said "Thank you" to my complements about their kids and promptly turned away from me. Tori was well behaved and roamed the room at will, and I will say that every mom she stopped by included her in their singing and gave her big smiles.

Library 4

Located in West Philadelphia, near two major universities and the home base for the local anarchist movement, I thought that HERE was where I'd find my people. West Philly is pretty much like the United Nations; you name a country, and someone from there lives in West Philly. At this group the format included books, songs, and a craft (making play dough pizzas), but the librarian was very nervous and didn't let all the kids see the books while she read them, and she read too fast. None of the parents sang along to the music, so neither did the kids, adding to the librarian's anxiety. While there were only a dozen kids and parents there, this was by far the most ethnically diverse group--Tori was one of only three Caucasian kids and the crowd included at least four different languages being spoken. While everyone spoke to me, only one mom chatted with me at length and then the group split along racial lines again (there was another lone dad there, but he didn't even make eye contact). Tori was more tired and hungry this time and she had a hard time sitting still; she stole the librarian's puppet, tried to knock over the CD player, and ran out of the room three times. But because this library doesn't have a regular story hour, most of us were there for the first time.

...

So it seems that no matter what I do, I cannot crack the code and get these other moms to chat with me. I've included a lot of information above, but I really want to make it clear that I'm not basing my impressions on just one library, or just one town, or even one demographic or type of neighborhood. At each library I've wandered around the room, following Tori, and I've tried to say something chatty but mild to each mother I've met (like, "your daughter is beautiful!" or "I just love that dress on her"). The only folks that spoke to me long enough for introductions were at Library 1 (although today at Library 4 I thought I recognized someone, and we introduced ourselves). At each one I've kept my tattoos demurely covered, and I've arrived clean and unstained. But still, no luck in making new mom friends.

I have no doubt that Tori is benefiting from all these story times. She has a great time, and we're getting her lots of kid exposure. But I have not felt this ostracized by other women since I was in middle school. I realized that this was bothering me when I began contemplating going shopping for clothes for the first time since I left an outside-the-home job. I need to get some new clothes for cooler weather, and without even realizing it, I started looking online at outfits I've seen the other moms wearing at story hour--meaning, t-shirts covered with light hoodies and matching track pants.

Because I have noticed a uniform, and it's not just the clothes or the moms. The women all look very similar; hair is usually in a ponytail, and they all wear mascara but not lipstick. The little boys are all dressed in casual but rugged clothes, but the girls are always very girlie and almost ALL have something in their hair; barrettes or ponytails or ribbons or bows.

I do realize that this could change; after all, I have only gone to one place twice (tomorrow will be my third time at Library 2) and it could take a while for folks to become chatty. But the one factor that is present at each story hour is ME.

Sigh.

I know I intimidate people (this is a chronic problem for those of us with strong personalities) so it could be that. I have been the only "fat" mom at each library (although I'm sure some of those moms would claim they were fat, they weren't). I've been the only tattooed mom, and often the only one with just one child, and sometimes the only one without a ring (I get a rash under my wedding ring if I wear it all the time, and these days it's off more than it's on). But I do have a cute baby wearing cute clothes (often brand name!). So why can't I get any traction with these other moms?

I probably wouldn't even care if my little fledging play group hadn't died; the other mom in the group simply stopped responding to my emails. So I'm beginning to feel like there is something seriously wrong with me. What gives? I'm not really someone with low self-esteem, but MAN. Make me regularly face a bunch of women I don't know, and damn if I'm not just as awkward and uncomfortable as I was in seventh grade. Why do we, as moms, do this to each other?

I'll keep going to story hour, but I might have to stop thinking it's a place I'll make friends and instead just know it's a place that Tori will get to play with other kids and hear some good books being read. But that makes me very sad. I will say this; I'm not going to bother covering my tattoos anymore. Fuck it.

*I just want to note that all of this nonsense is the luxury of the middle and upper classes; poor women don't worry about this shit. They face other, more compelling issues like were discussed in the comment section of my last post, such as "If I get too big a raise I'll lose my state-funded health care and my kids will have to use the emergency room for their medical treatment" and "I can't afford regular daycare, so do I trust my kids to the woman down the street that runs an unlicensed daycare out of her house and chain smokes?" The so-called "Mommy Wars" are the luxury of the well-fed and the well off. So please know that I understand that as I talk about my recent experiences on the "mommy war" battlefront.

Comments

[Allie]

1.

I would totally be nice to you at story hour. :( Anytime you come to CT for fun in a library let me know!

2.

maybe they are just shy. i don't like chatting with strangers, I am too wary and awkward. it makes me scared.

[Kris]

3.

I'd have to say maybe its the fact that you're new to the groups, and like you said, it was your first time?

We have a playgroup here where I live that goes two times a week while school is in session, and I took my son there from the time I moved here. In the beginning everyone was friendly, nice, etc. School ended, we went off on our own ways, met up now and again through the summer, once again, niceness everywhere. School started, so did group.

Within 3 weeks of school starting my husband left me. Suddenly I was the only single woman in the group.

I've never been accepted since, and its been a year.

My mommy war is divorce.

[Spacemom]

4.

I hated story hour for this reason.

I have 2 mom friends. That's it. The first mom I met via a "new mom group" and we just hit it off. The other mom is the parent of my oldest's best friend. We've worked a very comfortable friendship.

At the playground, library, whatever, I am too loud, too something for others. I usually scare people away somehow. And then I figure I don't belong with those people, KWIM?

I also found that in some towns, I felt too poor (HA!) for the town. The main town next to us has $1M houses all over the place. So showing up in jeans, a t-shirt and my snotty kid made me just remember my upbringing in rural WNY...

Sigh..I guess you hit a nerve here!

[Amy]

5.

I think you are expecting too much too soon here. I go to several different mom/dad/caregiver-and-child-type events and it usually takes at least 3-4 times of going to the same event at the same place before I can get a good conversation going with even one other adult. Plenty of brief exchanges, of course, but it is often too hectic and we are too worried about our kids for more than a passing comment or two. So hang in there. Pick a story time/location/reader that you like and stick with it. If you remain as open to interaction as you have been, you will definitely find some of "your own."

Good luck.

[Kat]

6.

I just signed Solomon and I up for our first story time. Getting in was difficult as the one in our town was so inflexible we couldn't go to the 2-3 yo class because he's only 1.5 yo (!) so we had to search around. Thanks for your post on this, but now I'm nervous! I haven't done so well on the playground scene. So far the one one who's been friendly to me was a stay at home dad.

I don't know why women/mommies are so clichish. I mean, we're all trying to wade through this evolving adventure with our kids. I know I for one could use the support of other mommies, particularly given that we don't have family in the area. Ironically, my family is in your area of PA. Just fyi, I'd probably seek you out in a group BECAUSE you had tattooes and thus had more of a chance of being a kindred spirit than the matching jogging outfit mommies... hang in there and I'll try to do the same!

[Donnie]

7.

Cec... my only assvice is to give them a few more tries at one place. My BFF is a big, bold, strong-minded liberal woman and it took me half a semester to talk to her, even though I thought she was funny as hell.

I hope it's that way for you and those other Mommies.
-D.

PS:
I don't fit the mommy uniform, either. I'm ok with that.

[electriclady]

8.

Man, I hear you. Meeting other moms makes me feel like I'm a high school geek all over again. For me, I think it is partly because I work outside the home--the SAH moms are very cliquey in my neighborhood, and it's hard to get them to look at you, much less talk to you. I have managed to connect with a small group of other (working) moms but it really felt like high school, or possibly like dating, the first few months we were getting together--I was so nervous and awkward.

I've been meaning to post about this at length myself...I should get on that!

[wealhtheow]

9.

This is one of my biggest concerns about becoming a mother (how incredibly shallow, huh). I've never been particularly good at making friends, and I'm worried that when I go to events like this I'll just be stonewalled by other cooler and more social moms.

[kathleen999]

10.

I have noticed that these groups take time to accept people. You will probably have to pick a spot and go there regularly. It sounded like the one in your town was the best one in terms of comfort for you. Maybe just keep on going there? Moms will warm up.

I am always the weirdo mom too. No idea why. But I don't care any more...and my boys usually win everyone over.

[rubenesque writer]

11.

Just delurking to say that I go to story hour with my 2 year old daughter EVERY WEEK at the SAME LIBRARY with the SAME MOMMIES... and still no one speaks to me. I try like heck, but to no avail. Damn cliquey mommies. That's what I think, anyway. If you find the magic bullet that will make these mommies more friendly, please share the recipe!

[melissa]

12.

But maybe SHOWING OFF the tattoos would make the difference, though? I know I'd approach a tattooed bretheren more easily than a scary perfect-looking mom, myself...even though my tattoos are small and mostly hidden.

[charissa]

13.

The thing that occurs to me ... if you pick a group and stick with it, if other like-minded mommies show up, they'll see you (kindred spirit) and stick around. It's possible the current group may warm up to you, or not, but these groups are like revolving doors, with people coming and going all the time. Who knows? And at least Tori is enjoying it...

[sk]

14.

I agree that it's like dating. It took me 2 1/2 years to find any mommy friends. I ended up finding an amazing meetup group. I don't know how I survived without these women before. Hang in there. You'll find your place. I can't count the times I came home from something and cried because I didn't know what was wrong with me.

[Lia]

15.

I'm glad you mentioned the "fat" option. I've felt similarly ostracized and have always wondered if it was about my weight. It's not like it's contagious...

[Jenni]

16.

Even if I had enough money and weren't useless at being a SAHM, the idea of having to find mommy groups to keep the child and I stimulated scares the hell out of me! I would imagine it being just like high school again.

Fuck the uniform I say! Be yourself and see what happens. If nothing else it will be good for Tori.

[Kim]

17.

Hey now you think you are the only one feeling that way. I have tatoo's three of them, but you would never know upon meeting me. So don't judge a book by it's cover, them woman, might just feel the same way as you do. I know myself are always looking for a great "mother" friend. You'll meet some just don't get discourage. I just a new "mommy" friend right outside my home, my son and her daughter play great together. As Tori gets older, more opportunity will present itself.

Oh hey a great place where I've meet some great "mommy" friends, is at our local YMCA. I signed my son up for swim lessons, and baseball. I'm meeting wonderful people. If I was to EVER stay home, the YMCA has wonderful activities for my son, even a preschool, at least here they do.

[Mimi]

18.

I can't tell which libraries you've been to, but wanted to recommend Roz's storytime at Bala Cynwyd Library. I don't know about the crowd there, but I think you'd like her.

Ali & I would totally come to any storytime if you were there!

[christa]

19.

When I first moved to the bay area, I was terribly lonely as my husband was still in Oregon for the first six months finishing his degree. At work no one really spoke to me (I was the only woman in my group and almost a generation younger). I realized that scientists, as a group, are slow warmers and it just took time (read months) for me to get to know people. Being a newbie to the area, I just tried to make conversation by asking a lot a questions and asking for recommendations for things. Maybe asking questions/tips of the mothers rather than comments would help?

I also tried out a couple of knitting groups during that time and found them really difficult as people didn't really talk to me at them either. I stopped going until my yarn store owner (who I swear was the only person that was really friendly with me those first few months) encouraged me to go again. Since then, I've grown to really look forward to these activities.

Even though I don't have kids, I would totally go to a playgroup or storytime just to hang out with you and the lovely Tori. Just give them time. They'll realize your charms.

[Jo-Ann]

20.

Being a similar type to you I have run into the same thing since R was born. It actually was the worst when R was a tiny baby. I had Mom's and Grandmom's scowl at me. SCOWL serious scowls. These days it is just the the Mom ignore thing. Some events are worse than others. I have met Mom buddies in unlikely places at times. It is like meeting a new man. You have to be open to it and grow a thick skin to the rejection!

I wish you live closer!

Hey how bout next Wed I take Tori if the weather is nice to your park by your house??

[Katie]

21.

As for me personally - I am far to shy/socially awkward to respond to anything that anyone says to me in any social situation with anything more than a strangled 'thanks' or something equally inspiring. So maybe some of those other moms are terribly shy or socially awkward. But certainly ALL of them aren't, I would think.

[Meg]

22.

While I think that going a few more times might be a key, I also think that sometimes it never happens. Now the my son is 4.5, I can sometimes get a chat going with a mom at the park--but it's not likely.

I wonder sometimes if it's because 'public' mothering feels so vulnerable, that we are all so aware we could be criticized harshly at any moment, that mom's guards go up, and even when things are pleasant, the vulnerability that's necessary for a real connection doesn't happen b/c other people are also there, and we are all parenting, and we are all under cultural surveillance.

I say this b/c sometimes there have been moms who I could barely get a few words from at a play group or at the park, but as soon as it is just the two of us? All is well. Back in a group of moms? the guard is up again.

And yes, I also think that people often act like fat is contagious. But more likely I think people's guard is up b/c we all are aware of the judgments placed on us so easily by others. Sad.

Maybe ask one of the mom's that strikes your fancy out for a tea after the story hour? I dunno. But no matter what, I don't think it's you. Highly unlikely. It's too common a complaint to be about you specifically.

[Geohde]

23.

You know the first thought that came to my mind reading about all those snooty women?

Screw 'em.

Life's too short to bend yourself to fit in with the clones.

:)

[Melissa Garrett]

24.

Okay, seriously. IT'S NOT YOU!! Take it from me, the typical mommy who attends story hour but doesn't talk to anyone and rarely makes eye contact. It's my problem, because I am TOO shy to know when a nice person, such as yourself, is paying my kid a compliment and trying to strike up a conversation. Perhaps there's just a lot of women like me at these story hours. Or perhaps they're just snobs. There's a lot of them around, too!

You mentioned that many of these moms has more than one child. I know that when I used to take two of my three to story hour, ALL of my energy was focused on getting them to act like humans. I was so nervous about them disturbing other moms and kids that I had a VERY difficult time relaxing.

And although I am one of those who wears track pants, matching hoodie, and hair in a pony, how YOU look wouldn't sway my opinion of you in the least.

Does your town have a mom's group? For example, my city has a Mom's of Ithaca group that meets. Okay, I probably shouldn't tell you that they TOTALLY stood me up when we were supposed to meet, but maybe you would have a better experience.

PS - has anyone come up with a blog title that you like? The only one I could come up with is "Write On." Don't know if it's taken or has been suggested, but it sounds professional enough, plus you could take it to mean many different things. Just a thought ;-)

[Lisa S (aka Stolidoli)]

25.

Hey Cec - just a few thoughts -

1. Please don't cover the tattoos or buy different clothes!

2. As the mom of 4, I sometimes plan a story hour or something similar as a means to get together with an old friend that I might never get to see otherwise - it keeps the kids entertained so we can chat. So in a situation like that, I might appear "clique-ish" beause I'm disinterested in speaking to anyone other than my friend, but it doesn't mean I'm like that across other situations. So don't necessary judge the other parents.

3. Speaking of not judging, sometimes I'm so damn tired I can't talk to anyone even though I want to because I can't process a coherent thought in my head. Again, it doesn't mean I'm not open to a new friend, just that I'm having an "off" day.

4. Usually, I find myself making new friends over repeated exposure and increasing chattiness. It takes seeing the same people over and over again to really chat.

5. Please don't try to change your clothes or cover your tattoos! I'd love to hang with you at a story hour, and this is coming from a girl in an Ann Taylor sundress eating a Weight Watchers ice cream cone. Besides, you have no idea if they have a tattoo, just like they might not know about yours.

6. Did I lose count? Anyway, Tori and Catherine are just about the same age - we could always get them together if you'd like. Catherine could use a girlfriend, and it would be fun for us! I'm all the way near that bookstore that you worked in years ago, but still relatively close by.

Oh, and I laughed at the girl in a black t-shirt thing - I am always drawn to people whose girls are not frilly girly girl, despite having several frilly girly girls myself.

[goodsandwich]

26.

Nobody talks to me at story hour either, and I look a lot like the "other moms" you described. I didn't know story hour was a place to make mom friends? I'm always too busy with the kidlet.

Sorry it's not working for you, though.

[Another Heather]

27.

Haven't read all the comments, but just wanted to say that I am so going through the same nonsense and I am sick of it. What is it with these playgroups? Gah. Honestly, I"m so tired of having to be on my best behavior around other moms, making sure to tiptoe and getting ignored completely--I am starting my own playgroup (I actually put out a flier advertising for liberal moms with foul mouths to come out and play)...so we'll see how that goes. Again, gah. Who knew making mommy-friends would be so hard?

[AmyinMotown]

28.

Dude. Same thing. I wrote about this oh, maybe a year ago? It still hasn't gotten better-but I care less. I would pick one story hour that you like and go regularly--I do notice people warming up when they see me all the time. I wonder why this is, that moms come across as so horribly cliquey. It can't all be insecurity.

[Catherine]

29.

Meeting people is weird once you're out of the age where you meet people - up to college.

I don't know about Mom groups, but anywhere I go where I am interacting with strangers, I find it awkward to get to know people - and I'm outgoing! AA was like that for me in the beginning. I would never have sat at your table at CCYP with you and Sarah and the other girls because you totally gave off the clique vibe! HA! Or maybe it was just me.

Anyway, I think once you're out of the socially prescribed age and situations where you are supposed to form your friends for life, it gets more complicated. I have a lot of acquaintances but VERY few friends - which is why there were 30 people at my wedding among other reasons. :) But you know what? I find I have trouble keeping up with the few friends I do have, so it all works for me.

And as another loud-mouth, I'm so used to being immediately disliked that I don't even blink at it anymore. People find loud, outspoken opinionated women REALLY unacceptable. Which leads me back to the best advice I've ever gotten (from Mandy): "Wear your tiara and fuck 'em."

[Eva]

30.

I really highly doubt that it's you. I make overtures to other mommies all the time that fail and you. And then sometimes they work. One thing is a lot of those mommies might not WANT more friends, or they came with buddies and don't want to "pick up" someone new. (When I'm out with my best friend I might notice if someone is "coming on" to me/her in a mommy-friend way but we both don't take it any further, usually.)

But it can totally happen that you get good friends this way. I think better than story time is the park since there's more time sitting around staring at the children--nothing else to focus on so you might as well chat. Sometimes we're at a playground just about every day. If you become a frequenter, you'll see the same people, and get to chatting with them regularly.

I like to advise people to join mothers' groups, and I have, but the reality is that I've only made one friend I have private playdates with through the club and she's always trying to get me to go to her church (Mormon). But nevertheless my baby gets a lot out of the baby playgroups that sometimes have 9 other kids her age there!

Still, I know what you are talking about with the mom/kid "uniforms" and your concerns about being fat and having tattoos and whatnot. Of course that might play a part. But just like your mama told you, you shouldn't change to get a man/friend, and you have to find the right match. You'll find a buddy or two with time. You just gotta wait for the right one! (I always say that about eggs and my infertility, too).

I'm SO LUCKY to have my best friend with a kid just 9 months older than mine, (we met through our husbands). I really hope you can find a mommy friend like that, too, because it's just wonderful. Give it time and don't assume you're doing something wrong. It's not like you met Charlie right away.

[Stacy]

31.

In a twist I also attend my local library program with my son, James, who shares the same birthdate as Tori, was also the product of IVF, and I have tried to speak to the tatooed overweight mom of an adorable lttle girl (names Sky) but she blows me off every single time so I quit trying. I joined every moms group I could (MOMS International, MOPS, Yahoo groups) and through all of that I have made a few mom friends. I am not sure we have much in common other than being moms but we stay super busy and there a couple of women who are pretty cool.

[Sarah]

32.

If you figure out the answer, post it. I am not sure why it has to be so hard. I have worked on being less shy and making more small talk but I completely suck at taking anything to the next stage. Like suggest we play together? Get together? What do I say? What if she says no?

[JK]

33.

Oh, my friend (may I call you that?), it takes time. Now that N (5) is five, I feel I have a teeny understanding of the clique that is for Moms.

I have a fairly strong personality (Italian) and I find that many people WANT to talk, but don't know what to say/do. Most people are shy and insecure. I find that thinking that way helps. Also, when a Mom has more than one kid with them, socializing becomes impossible because of the herding cats they have to do. When I'm out with my herd of cats, I can't actually talk with any one--even if I want to talk.

I say give it 3 or 4 times at any one place and 3-4 times with a particular person before you expect anything to happen relationship-wise.

Nice sampling of library hours.

[A Whole Lot of Nothing]

34.

I SO hope you don't change yourself to try to fit in with the "others." I never feel like I fit in, either. It's like there's a Mommy Club that I haven't been invited to. But, the more I observe other moms, the more I realize they're just as shy and baby-attentive as I am. We tend to stay home more now.
I'd LOVE to have you as my friend in Florida!

[suz]

35.

Seriously? The tattoed chick with the big personality would be the first person I talked to- I could be reasonably certain we'd have something in common.

I had much the same experience meeting other moms. I often find myself the odd one out, but that was the case pre-kid, too.

I have made friends, but not until I'd decided to hell with it and stopped trying. The people I become friends with tend to hang around the edges of the big cliques, which makes it hard to find each other. I'm so vehemently anti-clique that I was avoiding all big groups and not finding anyone at all.

We found friends at music and art classes more than at library story times. Story hour was just too crowded and the groups too well-established to make any headway.

[cat, galloping]

36.

I don't know, but stop thinking it's YOU. It's not what you wear or how much you weigh or if you have tattoos or whether you wear lipstick or a wedding ring. I don't know what everyone's problem is, but I know I have had a hard time connecting with moms, and I know other people have, too. It's a mystery. But it's not you!

[Jodes]

37.

i'm going with what so many have said before- it takes time! my oldest is 3 and i still am trying to make more mommy friends. it's hard, in part i think, because we are all so worried about doing something wrong or being judged that we are very closed off. i am going through the same thing at the synagogue we joined and i just make myself keep saying hello and asking questions. slowly, people are starting to answer back! hang in there and know it's not you as obviously, the same thing is going on with so many moms.

[carmie]

38.

I take my son to a fairly diverse playgroup and the only way any other parent has talked to me has been us showing up repeatedly. Even so, I still haven't made any outside-of-playgroup friends after a year. Meh. I'm not your typical suburban parent, but my son is very cute and personable and my manners are impeccable. So it can't be me.

Keep plugging along. If you can stand them, La Leche League meetings can be fun for meeting moms.

[suz]

39.

As a mom who takes her baby girl (just slightly older than Tori) to several different activities such as story time each week, I can tell you it's not you. I talk with other moms/dads there, but I am way too busy chasing my little one around and participating in the activity at hand to strike up a real conversation. Look at story time as Tori's thing and the rest will come in time. You are there first for her so have fun doing that and eventually you will get to know others in the group. Also, try asking open questions rather than making comments. This helps moms know that you are interested in talking not just the brief exchanges that normally occur at these functions. And by the way, I am a track pants mommy and your "appearance" would not deter me at all from being your friend. The fact that you think it would is a deterrent though so be careful not to reverse discriminate!

[RainbowW]

40.

where i live, story hour is sort of like a sick AA meeting: they won't look up or talk to you unless you fall on the floor and twitch with DTs.

so, the next time i was supposed to take the kid to story hour, i left him at home and went to a meeting instead.

[Meira]

41.

Gee, why don't I do more activities with the kids?
Oh yeah -- this is why. I have very little patience for people giving me the 'I smelled a turd' look before I walk out the door (and crawl under a rock!).

Part of me is like, "How the hell could these people not see the wonderfulness that is Cecily???" and the other part of me is thinking, "Hey! They don't talk to me either, that's quite a compliment!"

[Jen]

42.

Cecily, after everything you've been through now you're letting a bunch of mommies intimidate YOU? Now one can take advantage of you without your permission. The same goes for intimidation. Keep at it. Work 'em. Make them like you. I've done it a million times. Chances are some of them feel the same way you do (even if they don't look the same as you) and you can bond with each other about being the outsiders. OTOH, Stepford wives creep me the fuck out.

[Patty]

43.

Haven't read the other comments, but my 2 cents are to go to the same one several times. You will see familiar faces and they will recognize you and chatting begins. When Tori starts being friendly with other kids you will start conversations with their parents. I know that when I am out at these kind of things I am too busy/worried watching my own squirrly kid to be chatting up the adult next to me. It is only when I see a familiar face that I chat a little. I have never considered that I was being rude by not chatting with other parents, it is just that I don't have the inclination to chat up a different stranger each week. Oh- and I have tatoos that I do not hide. If they don't like the tats which are a part of me, why would I want to talk with them? Actually, showing your tats might actually start a conversation with other moms who have them! Your tatoos, your clothes, your style are all part of who you are- don't change who you are because you think you need to fit in!

[CTG]

44.

Good grief, I can't even formulate a coherent response. My brain has obviously gone elsewhere for the fall.

I haven't had the chance to go to story time (and probably subconsciously avoided it) but I do know I quit my breastfeeding new mommy group because I felt completely out of the inner circle. I didn't have anything in common with any of these other women. I was stuck in the trixie breastfeeding group and I am most definitely not a trixie! I need the "realistic moms" group. Like when their 2 year old rubs fig newton all over their face on the train on the way home they just look at them and say "well now that was just a waste of a good fig newton!"

Although interestingly enough, whenever I do get around to talking to other moms we end up talking about how hard it is to talk to other moms! Crazy.

[Jill]

45.

I hate to admit it, but I have avoided moms who seemed desperate to make friends.

So I'm going to take a risk and go against the other commenters here, and say maybe it WAS you. Maybe you're putting out "desperate to make friends" vibes? Maybe you're just trying too hard?

Cec, I think you would be the best friend a gal could ask for. Be yourself, give it some time, and I'm betting you'll find some really great friends- whichever library you choose.

[Felicia]

46.

Hey, you sound like me. I am a big girl with tatoos and I talk way to much!!! My little girl is Tori's age too. Anyway I joined a mom group and went to almost everything and just keept showing up, eventually I found some people to hang out with. The one thing I did that seemed to work if you find someone that you talked to and sort of clicked offer a park play date. I had little cards made up with a pic of my and Samantha with our email and address. I got rejected a few times, but I also got a new friend out of it. Sometimes people are just as shy so you can't be afriad to keep going up to people, even if they just smile. Hope it works out for you. Wish we lived closer!!!
Felicia

[Anon]

47.

It's not you. I don't have as much experience with playgroups/storytime as you do, but I have never felt like I fit in. I'm too young, work, too schooled, whatever. You name it, I just don't fit in. Anywhere.

Show off your tats (or quit covering them LOL) and forget about trying to make friends, at least for the time being.

I guess I don't relate to women in general well. I honestly have no female friends any longer. Good thing I don't mind being a loner!

I'm sure there is someone there who will figure out how cool you are. Give them time. =)

[stella]

48.

I live in a tiny town with a pretty evenly split white/hispanic population. Story time is terrible! These women are usually very stand-offish. Of course I don't try to talk to them to much because I feel so out of place. I too am fat and don't wear my wedding ring either (never thought about that). Who knows? Maybe they are all as shy as me. BUT I was just telling my husband last night that my whole life I have felt that becasue I am fat people think I have no feelings. They treat you like you aren't a person. I this isn't always the case but I am seeing it with a co-worker at the present. It sucks!

[stella]

49.

Oh, and I have three small tattoos, a nose piercing and a lip piercing. That gets some interesting stares from the conservative mommies!!

[Kim - mom to 5]

50.

Well, first I want to say it's great you are getting out there. Two, I think you need to go to the same story time at the same library for awhile and then you will make friends with the moms. I personally look for the not so cookie cutter people to hang with even though I have my kids dressed as you have described them in your post.
In my experience, the other moms are probably just checking you out. Wondering if you are going to stick around. I often look for other nursing moms, moms who have slings, or moms who have something that identify them as having something in common with me.

[Jude]

51.

Hang in there. I still haven't figured out the mommy-codes-of-conduct at these things. It is junior high all over again, isn't it?! I just don't know what they think they're accomplishing by being less than friendly?? What the hell??

[Holls]

52.

I have an issue with striking up a conversation with ANYONE!! I'm usually the fat chic, the w*l-m*rt clothes chic, the chic with the piercings and *gasp* tattoos you can see. All major turn offs it seems. Because I am 'shy' nobody talks to me either. We went to one story hour at our library.....that turned out to be...well...not great. No kids played or talked with my kids, same with the moms. We were new comers but still.....atleast give my kids a chance, right?? I dont know the code. But I'm totally there with you. I always tell my kids, 'If people don't acknowledge your exsistance, then they aren't worth any more of your time.' I wish you were in Northern California.....we could totally go to story hour and take them by force!! LOL....good luck with your next story hour!!

[Jenn]

53.

I've always had a warm-up period at these things. It's like the other moms want to see you show up and pay your dues for a bit or something - as if a cold shoulder is any incentive to return...

But, you're right. At the end of the day, it's for the kid. Stuck up moms? Not worth it!

[Christine]

54.

I stopped going to library time because I am so painfully shy. I wouldn't ignore people to be mean - I am just incapable of holding a conversation with someone I don't know.

We've tried a couple of different things. My old playgroup didn't work out. They were very uptight and on CONSTANT VIGILANCE for germs, but eventually a new group started (the leader even has multiple tattoos and piercings!). I was much more comfortable there. Also, we've done some different play areas (jumpy things, climbing things, splash pads) where Max can interact with other kids, but there's no real pressure for me to hang with the parents. Nothing's scheduled or organized, so I probably won't see them again anyway.

Just recently, we found a new group at a library and that's been going better. First, it's smaller, which is easier on me. Second, many of the women have kids closer to Max's age, and I've found a lot of the freakiness dissipates as the kids age. Two year olds are going to have bad days in public, and mothers of other two year olds know it. There's a lot less judgment there.

[Hetty_Fauxvert]

55.

I think you might have more luck at some different event -- a mom's club or similar. I haven't taken our boys to a library event yet, but I know I would totally be back to grade school (in my mind, that is) and be worried about being "shushed" by the librarian! So maybe the other moms are just being a little uptight in a library. So far, the best luck I've had meeting other moms (and having actual conversations) has been through my local twins club, and some of the twin moms told me that the local regular moms club was good too. So maybe you should try some other venues besides libraries before getting too bummed about this. (And for the record, tats and fat wouldn't bother me, even staunch Republican that I am. :)

[karinsamira]

56.

Hi Cec,

I have not written in ages, just lurked a bit due to poor health of mine , but I would like to say something re this post of yours.
Iam sure that others have said this before ( have not read the comments) but I do think that this library reading hour situations may not be the best possible place to make new friends asap. IMHO, many many people ( independently of their race, background, whatever) tend to be very shy in a situation where there are a bunch of other unfamiliar faces...I really believe that would change if you would go to one or two of those places regularly and meet the same people again and again. 2 years ago,when my DS started to go to Kindergarten, I had kind of the same problem..was kind of shy and felt really isolated, especially with all the secondary IF / mc / OHSS crap going on in my life.
And then, one day, another mom would approach me and ask how far I was along ( not at all,just overstimming) I snapped something like that were just the fertility hormones bothering me...that usually shuts up people really quick...but this woman would then tell me that she had done the same. It was the beginning of a great friendship.
So, I do feel that you should not give up yet..just give this some time.

[Carla Hinkle]

57.

Not to repeat what others said more eloquently, but

(1) I too am shy in public situations. I often attribute stuck-up-ness to others but fail to think whether it might be shyness like me. I think an awful lot of it IS insecurity.

(2) Sometimes I go with a friend I don't see much, so I'm chatting with her and don't make much of an effort with newcomers. Oops, that might come across as stuck up.

(3) As a mom of 2, I can say I DEFINITELY have less time/energy for socializing at these things than I did when I had 1.

(4) I tried out a lot of different mommy groups/play groups/activities etc when my 1st was a baby. Most didn't lead to any good friends. One did - a mom from a play group for part-time working moms who I really clicked with, our kids clicked, and we still hang out 3 years later. But that was probably 1 out of 10 (story times, Gymboree classes, music classes, swimming lessons, etc etc etc).

This may be more future information for you than present, but I also found the parents much more approachable at my older daughter's preschool. We all seemed to recognize that we had a bit of an investment in the place and each other since our kids would be spending a lot of time together. So maybe next year, if Tori goes to pre school, that is an avenue that might open up.

Mostly I say keep going! Tori will have fun at least, and you might make a friend.

[Lauren]

58.

yeah! show of your tattoos! show those bitches! =)

[Chiara]

59.

Wow, I have so many thoughts, let me gather and hopefully make sense at this hour... :)

I am a VERY social person. After I followed my own "midnight train to Georgia" and left my adopted hometown of Memphis to come to Nashville where my now hubby lived, I thought I was going to die from missing my friends. Efforts to make bosom friends at my new workplace fell flat for the most part. I tried not to hate the new town and would say to him "my kingdom for ONE kindred spirit" and he would feel guilty for taking me away.

Three months after my baby was born I finally got motivated to start getting out in our suburb and just happened to see a mention of meetup.com, so I joined my local stay at home mom's group.
At my first meetup I happened into conversation with 2 really cool moms who had babies as well (birth stories ensued). A few meetings later, a couple more. The "baby mamas" now often get together and it's a very fun and supportive little group. It's changed my whole outlook on this town, really.

Observations:
At the beginning, we had it made for interaction time, because with 4-5 month olds, at the park, say, we could sit around with them on a blanket and chat for hours. Older kids are running around and their moms stay by the playground and then they need a scheduled nap. Not that there isn't overlap and times to get to know the others, but it's harder for them (as it will soon be for us).

But I think this is the most important factor: just about everyone in the meetup group is from somewhere else, which is why they joined, because they don't have "people" around here. So we were ALL out to make friends. You hear it said a lot that the meetups are for us first and the kids second. We go to kid-friendly places, parks, Cici's Pizza, children's museum's, McDonald's playland, etc (a lot of effort is made to do cheap stuff cause of a lot of the moms don't have much spending $$).

Especially in our little baby group, we have a lot in common, since all of us were working until just recently and are trying to figure out this whole not having a day job thing. I really can't say enough about it. It's totally improved my quality of life here and made me less apt to scheme about getting my husband transferred to Memphis so I can have my people back (ok, not completely). :P

If you could get in with something like that (totally check meetup.com!) it might be just the ticket. By the way, I did befriend the awesome chick in our group with the tatoos and nose ring - she reminded me of home. :)

[Elizabeth]

60.

It can be hard to meet other moms at library storytime - I know that at the one we go to, everyone is just focused on their kid and it's a little too chaotic before and after the actual event to get involved in too much conversation. However, we're lucky in that there is a playground next door (at a fast-food restaurant actually) and many people take their kids there to play, post-storytime. That is where I have been able to actually talk to people.

I am positive it isn't *you*, but the situation! As far as meeting other moms, I have had the greatest success at playgrounds and parks. Your kid approaches theirs or you are standing next to them pushing your kids in the swings and the opening line is usually, "oh, how old is s/he?" - and then go from there. I have met some of my best friends this way!

Also, I'm in CA but our community colleges sponsor all of these *free* parent participation classes and at Tori's age they are largely about meeting other moms. We went to one a couple of times last year where we just met in a different park each week and the leader gave a brief presentation on some parenting topic & then everyone chatted and the kids played, and then there would be a few "activities" like bubbles or a parachute. It wasn't for me b/c it was too long (3 hours once a week) but it seemed like a pretty good opportunity to meet people.

And, I met my first mom friend when we moved to town by "finding my tribe" at Mothering Dot Commune! BabyCenter also has regional boards and people do find playgroups through them.

[car]

61.

I definitely side with those who say it's familiarity; go a few more times and it will get chummier. That said, sometimes it's unique to the area, too. I moved to a town where "everyone" else has been there for generations back. It's not a really small place, but every soccer game or whatever with my kids I see variants on this conversation: "Hey, Paula! Long time no see!" "OMG, it's been, what, 10 years? How's your sister?" ....etc. Everyone grew up with everyone else, everyone knows everyone else and their family and their pets and so on. That's a really, really hard thing to break into when you're new. It's not that anyone's being mean, it's just that they're grouping around the familiar and they really don't know what to do with someone who's new and did something weird like move away from their own family home. The best I've done is with other newbies to the area who are also shut out of the in cliques.

[Whitney]

62.

Our little town has only one tiny library, and a larger library the next town over. I went to story hour at both of them (each had it once every 2 weeks) for 2 years. Nobody ever said more than hello to me, and I usually am wearing some variation of the mommy uniform! LOL. No tattoos, anything like that. And I live in a friendly place. But it just seems like other moms travel in groups and I don't have a "group". I'm the only SAHM of all my friends, so that doesn't help.

It's the same with preschool--my oldest went to the same preschool for 2 years, and now my youngest is in the same preschool, with some of the same parents I've been seeing for the past 3 years. All in their little cliques. I'll see a new parent and think "YES! somebody I can talk to!" but they usually already know one of the other parents and latch on to them.

Wow, I'm rambling!! Just wanted to let you know that I think it happens to all of us at some point. Just hang in there, you know it's good for Tori and maybe someday that rare person will come along that you can get to know!

[legalmama]

63.

I think maybe you are reading too much into the way things have gone, since you have only attended a single story hour at each location. I do think women can be snotty and snobby, but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. I think you have to keep going to one of the story hours, and give it some time. I know I am pretty shy, and it would take me quite a while to really become friends with someone I met at this kind of function.

[Jenn]

64.

Cecily-
So been there. I've had to do the meet other mommies game in two towns due to moving waaay across the country when my girls were 1 and 4. I know my super-sarcastic wit can be a turnoff for some, but hell with it. I've stopped muting down Me in order to fit in with the Stepfords because I find that even if I get to the "hanging out" phase with them, I am always trying every second I'm with them. I'm a pretty good actress, but it's never just a natural and fun friendship when I'm consciously striving to fit in. In both places, I've found that just being myself and having a larger portion of patience than comes naturally to me eventually brings me a soulmate friend who likes me for me. Hang in there. We're out there. We just don't tend to travel with the herd, you know?

[Heather AKA Epiphany Alone]

65.

Story hour and playgroups I find hard to meet people. I live in a small town in Central Jersey, so it means that after going to the library two or three times and playgroup twice, I'd met pretty much everyone in those circles. Rather than cliquish here, it's more like we're all isolated. After a couple of visits, conversation was at least free-flowing and none of these people are folks I hang out with, but hey, I run into them at the Target and our kids smile at each other and we talk about them playing at the next playgroup/story hour.

It gets easier, Cec. My 5 year old has selected my friends, and she chose better than I could've ;)

[MsPrufrock]

66.

I generally go to such things and think how dreadfully boring most people appear, and I thus assume they are dull people. Not fair coming from someone whose outward appearance belies her personality, ie I look dull too.

I would love to see a tattooed woman at such a story time. It would make me feel much more comfortable about approaching someone else, though said tattoo person would think I was way too boring and "normal".

When I was in the US I took P to a few story time sessions and no one even looked at us. I guess I was just in the wrong part of PA!

[Melissa @ Organized Chaos]

67.

I'm fat (with no tats) and also find that I don't fit in with other moms (it doesn't change much when they get to kindergarten either) I've given up on being in the "club" and just try to make a connection with one mom. I figure if I can bond with ONE mom then I'm doing OK. Screw the herd.

[Lena]

68.

I'm sorry your having a tough time, I can relate. It try and compliment the other moms on their children and mostly get tight lipped smiles with nothing back. I'm blond and a size 8, so I don't stand out. I think most people just have their friends and don't want to make the effort. Or they just like excluding people. I wish I lived in your town, I'd love to chat with you at storytime!

[Ninotchka]

69.

My story hour is in an affluent area that just happens to be close to my house and I talk more to the Hispanic nannies (I'm Hispanic) than I do to the moms. The nannies are warm and friendly and they often mistake me for being Anna Sofia's nanny which I think is hilarious. I also think they appreciate that I speak their language. The (mostly white) moms seem more reserved and only talk to each other. They NEVER talk to the nannies which is probably why they rarely speak to me. Sad state of affairs, huh? Oddly, it doesn't really bother me.

Also, Mrs. Debbie, our storyteller is a sweetheart. So, along withthe nannies, that's who I chat with the most.

But really, I'm there for the baby, so it doesn't bother me in the least. And maybe I'm used to it since Anna is my third and I've been through all of this suburban politic bullshit before.

[Diane]

70.

I am not a stay at home mom, so I can't say for sure what I would do but I'm almost positive it would take me three times to start thinking of you as a regular and feel like talking to you. I am fairly friendly, but also lazy so if I was comfortable not talking to anyone then I would just give you a "suck it up" look and ignore you. Unless of course you looked lonely and then my catholic guilt would takeover and I would make sure that we were best friends.

[Kristin]

71.

It's the fat thing, I think. I get that, too. The only place I haven't gotten that is at La Leche League, where everyone is really kind and open.

It also could be that us fat chicks are so scarred by other girls hurting us as kids that we are afraid of women now and it shows.

But I think it is the whole fat=lazy and stupid thing. Sigh.

I'm in Jersey, if you ever want to hang out.

[Beth]

72.

Huh. I guess I never thought of library story time as a place for me to make friends. That wasn't the point. The point was to take my young ones to the library for them to enjoy stories, songs and crafts -- just a little once a week outing. Three kids thirteen years apart ... story time didn't change: none of the mothers were socializing with each other beyond normal politeness -- we were all focussed on our children. That was the point.

My children all love the library; they have close friendships with the librarians: thats what I wanted for them and library story time helped facilitate it.

[Melissa]

73.

Hi, I've dealt with the same awkwardness that you have at kid gatherings. I actually stopped trying to make friends with other moms. It hurts too much to be ignored, so I ignore them first. But I am allways nice and if someone talks to me I will talk to them. I think you should just go as you are. No need to cover tattoos or dress a certain way. Just go for your daughters sake. If she has fun, you will have fun and then when your guard is down maybe another mom like us will show up and become a friend to you. It takes time.

Anyway, Hang in there. Mom clicks are hard to break.

[Amy]

74.

Library #3 sounds like our library (Springfield). My kids have (2 and 4) have been to story time a bunch over the summer, but usually with our sitter (I was working more at the time). I do have to say that when I have gone I find that I feel like an outsider, as if everyone else is there every week an already knows one another. I think if I was there more regularly it might be different, but I don't know. Now that preschool has started again we are even less likely to be there on a regular basis. Had the same experience at Moms Club once, felt like everyone was already established with one another and I couldn't crack the code. Probably more me than them. I think if I were to attend an see the same kids/parents on a regular basis it might be different. I would certainly chat with someone who was clearly initiating as you seem to be. Hopefully it will get better as you find yourself going more often.

[kate]

75.

Oh. I read this and my heart broke just a little for you. I moved across the country 2 years ago, and set about making new friends. In my hometown, this was never a problem, despite my weight. Maybe I had enough friends there that I came across more confidently or something- I don't know.
Here, at one point, I was at my highest weight ever, and even when I was out with my HUSBAND, men and women alike would barely talk with me. I even had a jackass interrupt a conversation I was having with his friend to say, "He's not interested in you." The friend told the jackass to fuck off and introduced my husband, but even still, it's the sentiment that if you're fat, you're somehow lazy or stupid or not worth knowing. I see it all the time.
However, after losing 60 lbs, I ran into the jackass again, and he invited me to some party he was having, obviously not recognizing me. And most people in general are nicer to me than they were 60 lbs ago. They smile back when I smile at them. They invite me to share a table with them at a busy bar. They continue conversations for hours.
I'm back to gaining weight again, so we'll see what happens in the future (though I'm still -for my own health reasons- praying that I don't gain all of it back).
Feh. I don't know. I just know (as someone who has been very fat and is still mostly fat and will probably be fatter still at some point in the future) that I have always felt like people think I am "less than" because I am fat, or that people are surprised when what comes out of my mouth is even the slightest bit intelligent, or relevant.

I'm very likely wrong (I own my wrongness!), but when I read your post, I immediately thought that when you described their reactions, that they were a bunch of judgemental, uptight, size-ist assholes. Fuck 'em.

Be yourself, and if they don't enjoy you then, just give them a link to your blog, and let them see all the women worldwide who think you're a total badass.

[Auntie M]

76.

On a completely random note.
That rash you get under your wedding ring could be a mild Nickel Allergy. I have that and thought I wouldn't be able to wear a ring, but when I talked to the jewelry store person he explained that I would probably have no trouble with one if I avoided gold or silver. So I have a platinum engagement ring and a titanium wedding band. No Rash! :)
All the other advice sounds likely to me, though I'm no help since I can't have kids. As a few interesting off-topic side notes, I've felt a bit ostrasized at work since I've been making it known that I'm infertile (like it's catching) and my husband (240lbs at 5'9") is too fat for the adoption agency we tried to work with. Sigh. Now we have to find another agency.

[wwbd]

77.

It took a while for the other moms at my storytime to warm up to me. When I first started going I talked to the moms that I knew from my MOMS Club, but the other moms weren't too friendly. However, as I went more often we all warmed up and became more comfortable with each other. I know that I always have some social anxiety when meeting new people and that it often comes across as snobbishness. When I see new moms at the library I try to talk with them and ask them questions about their kids, but often it feels like pulling teeth and they rarely ask me anything in return. I'm sure that you are a great conversationalist and that would not be a problem with you. The rare times that a mom is responsive it has worked out great and she has been readily accepted into the group. Whew, I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe just give it some time? Keep being the friendly open person that you are and maybe some of the shyer moms will open up. Good luck! If we weren't on opposite sides of the country I'd totally invite you guys to our playgroups!

[Lori]

78.

For several years I was a single mom of three. Living payday to payday and some weeks not quite making it. I have often wondered why the financially challenged are often much more kind to each other. I am now a married Grandma and am pleased that my adult children learned that being kind is a way of life. Just be yourself cause we all love ya!

[Tiffany]

79.

Wow - I am always amazed at how many comments you receive. I think I would stick to libary number one and keep going back. I know that whenever I go somewhere for the first time I am shy and talk to other people as much as I do later. I think if you keep going back you will find that more and more people talk to you. Also by going to the one that is closet to you Tori might make some friends and it will be easy to schedule a play date since you are both in the same neighborhood. Also I have to admit I am the mom who dresses her little girl in as much pink as possible - no lace or frills.

[Lesley]

80.

Hon, you're trying too hard and you're expecting too much.

I'm an old-time Mommy. My oldest is 12. I never took any of my kids (youngest is 4) to story time to meet other moms. I took them to hear a story. That's it.

And I'm a working, single, mom of 3. I'm too tired to be charming.

I feel so sad when I hear that new moms like you or moms who are new to school feel like the rest of the moms are a clique b/c I never try hard to include other moms in my social interactions. I plop my weary old self down next to the moms I know and make quiet smartass comments at will. Like-minded smartasses seem to gravitate toward me.

Give it time. Be yourself! And your people will come to you!

P.S. When one of my sons came home from school pouting and said, "The OTHER lunch table called themselves 'The Cool Table." I said, "Eh, call yourself 'The CoolER Table.'" So he did!

[Shandra]

81.

Ah yes, mom-dating, it sucks.

I do sort of want to disagree that moms "do this to each other" though - although I am sure there ARE places that it is that kind of deliberate and casual exclusion that takes place in North American high schools, mostly I think if other moms are not friendly it's because they're tired/distracted/shy. (Unless you say "I'm newly at home and lonely and I was wondering if you wanted to get together sometime?" and they look at your tatoo and say "you have GOT to be kidding me.")

All it really takes is 2 or 3 mom friends. I joined a lot of groups and eventually found my tribe but it took a while. I used the direct approach which was "god, I hate trying to find mom friends, don't you? Even though I really need a cool one... so what *is* your sign, baby?" :-)

I agree with comments about the library - going more might help; on the other hand it might not be the best environment as the end time is so set.

[dorothy]

82.

I also had the storytime problem that people assumed I was the nanny, which I still find a little funny. Once people get used to seeing you they'll warm up. Also, in my experience, people who are not native English speakers can be very shy. (Our local library's storytime is also informally serving as an ESL course.)

However, if you want to accelerate the process, you can't beat swim class. I've found that parents are always very chatty there (when they're not keeping the toddlers from drowning themselves, that is; conversations can be stop and go).

[Kristin]

83.

If I were still in West Philly (used to be a grad student at one of the two aforementioned major universities), I'd have coffee with you. ;)

I don't know what the issue is, but I'm sorry it's making you uncomfortable. Maybe it's an appearance thing (and no, I'm not excusing this for a minute): I wonder if I might be intimidated by the strong-willed lady with the tattoes. For some people, that might be a snobby kind of thing (eek, tattooed lady sitting next to me), but honestly, for me, it would come from somewhere different. I think I might be afraid that the strong smart lady with the tattoes would look down on ME. I mean, look at the two of us: she's obviously way braver and more adventurous than I am. Probably smarter and more of a grown-up (whatever that means) than I am, too. More in charge of her own life. More immune to What People Say. This lady has been around: she reads, she writes, she speaks up. Me, well, don't let the advanced degrees and the nice vocabulary fool you. I'm a kid, a dabbler, an imposter. I'm just so darned ordinary and milquetoast. See? Whether or not any of my estimations are true, despite the fact that I know I'm just guilty of another type of stereotyping...it comes from my own inner demons, not from your tattoes. (Not an excuse, just an attempt at explanation.)

And there's the rub. I wonder (like Carla says above) if my demeanor then comes across as standoffish. And then it's doomed to be self-fulfilling, unless I consciously shake myself out of it. And if my "standoffishness" is really shyness, I'll betcha that those other "standoffish" moms might be fighting down some shyness too.

And still, even when I do break in enough to be part of the group, I'm incredibly reluctant to take it to that next, more individual level. I think I'm afraid that I'll be perceived as "level-jumping" (a la Seinfeld)...even when I love to be invited out to something outside the group by somebody else. But then, paradoxically...I often decline, as if I'm afraid the invitation was only meant for politeness.

I think maybe -- although there's no excuse for somebody not talking to you after you've made a direct attempt to be friendly, sheesh -- a lot of us are just afraid to go out of our comfort zones. I feel like I'm tapped out in so many ways already that it's often hard to extend myself any more. To quote yet more TV...I howled at an episode of "Roseanne" years ago when she got annoyed and yelled, "No new people!" I knew exactly what she meant: these are my family, these are my friends, this is where I'm safe and I know all the rules and boundaries, and everybody is used to me and my rough spots, so I can be myself.

So, I might be squirrely about striking up a conversataion with you myself, but that's because I'm slow to start chatting up anybody I don't know. But if you talked to me, I'd sit with you and talk back, because that's the nice thing to do, and because I'd be so thrilled that you opened up. And then I'd get to know you, and we'd go have coffee in West Philly, and let the kids run around Clark Park, or something. =)

Try one of the libraries a few more times, maybe? Please don't cover yourself up. Maybe there's another mom across the room just dying to take off HER hoodie.

Good luck -

[justdawn]

84.

From one fat, tattooed, opinionated, counter culture Momma to another...I think you ROCK! Those women who snub you based on your appearance are missing out on the opportunity to get to know someone who is smart and funny and wise. I hope that you can see youself for who you truly are and not let them make you feel like you are anything less!

[Alison]

85.

Oh, I thought I was the only one struggling with this problem! Well, I've only been a mum for just one month so for me it's not about the mum world but I related with your sentence about being "ostracized by other women". Ever since moving to burbia I have felt this way - I can't quite put my finger on why this is happening except I agree - it's like a return to 7th grade, where being extraordinarily homogeneous is a must!

I agree with one commenter - start showing off those tatoos! Who knows - perhaps it will draw some of these women out of their shells while at the same time you will be providing additional visual stimulation for the wee ones;)

[Alison]

86.

Oh, I thought I was the only one struggling with this problem! Well, I've only been a mum for just one month so for me it's not about the mum world but I related with your sentence about being "ostracized by other women". Ever since moving to burbia I have felt this way - I can't quite put my finger on why this is happening except I agree - it's like a return to 7th grade, where being extraordinarily homogeneous is a must!

I agree with one commenter - start showing off those tatoos! Who knows - perhaps it will draw some of these women out of their shells while at the same time you will be providing additional visual stimulation for the wee ones;)

[Celeste]

87.

I don't think that story hour is really supposed to be a social event. I think it's just a service that the library offers. I'm not a SAHM, but I was unemployed for a long period once and went to the library a lot during the week. Whenever I saw story hour ending, I did not see socializing happening. I didn't have children at that time, though.

Maybe a lot of people are intimidated about talking at the library because they are afraid of being shushed. I do feel it would be hard to focus on a conversation if you had an unoccupied toddler to corral.

I'm wondering if you could place an ad for a group you would like to start and see who you could draw out. Is this something that people list on Craigslist? The other night I was at a quilting event and one mom invited another to her moms' group that is held at a church. I confess I felt left out; all 3 of us have a child the same age. Have you called around to the churches to see what they have already set up? The nice part about it is there is usually a children's play area so you don't have to worry about entertainment.

Good luck, Cecily. I agree that there are times when it's good to make friends outside of the computer.

[Alison]

88.

Oh, I thought I was the only one struggling with this problem! Well, I've only been a mum for just one month so for me it's not about the mum world but I related with your sentence about being "ostracized by other women". Ever since moving to burbia I have felt this way - I can't quite put my finger on why this is happening except I agree - it's like a return to 7th grade, where being extraordinarily homogeneous is a must!

I agree with one commenter - start showing off those tatoos! Who knows - perhaps it will draw some of these women out of their shells while at the same time you will be providing additional visual stimulation for the wee ones;)

[Alison]

89.

Oh, I thought I was the only one struggling with this problem! Well, I've only been a mum for just one month so for me it's not about the mum world but I related with your sentence about being "ostracized by other women". Ever since moving to burbia I have felt this way - I can't quite put my finger on why this is happening except I agree - it's like a return to 7th grade, where being extraordinarily homogeneous is a must!

I agree with one commenter - start showing off those tatoos! Who knows - perhaps it will draw some of these women out of their shells while at the same time you will be providing additional visual stimulation for the wee ones;)

[Rachel H.]

90.

What the others said rings true ... you seem to be going about it the hard way, having many "first dates" and having to overcome newness over and over again. I'd say go to the same place at least 3 times before giving up on the women there :).

Have you thought about joining a moms group, like (say) Mothers & More? I see that there are several chapters near Philly.

http://mothersandmore.org/localchap/chapterlist2.php?St_code=PA

I'm a member of the local chapter, and I love the combo of kids activities during the day, and moms stuff at night. Of course chapters will vary considerably, but I really like the woman in my chapter. The regular activities make it easier to break into a mom friendship.

I have not had *any* success making friends with other moms at playgrounds etc., for what it's worth. It seems too difficult to do friendship overtures while minding small children.

[jenny]

91.

Wow, look at all the comments. This one hit a nerve!
I was shocked when I started going to my local baby clinic and found the same thing as you - I hadn't felt so ackward since I was a teenager. I don't have any advice other than to say, let the tattoo's show - I have two that you can't see in my sweatpants/hoodie uniform so you never know if you are the only one with them.

[Nancy]

92.

keep going to story hour, we dont have that here
find a playgroup! there has to be more than the fledgling one
dont buy their clothes, wear whatever you like
show those tattoos proudly, and for that matter get a tongue ring! just kidding
i'm new to this game too cec, and you will find women you hit it off with
what i find once you do...that i have the biggest problem with is
THE GOSSIP
oh my g-d i had no idea how much gossip happens in these groups
i have been friends with boys and working with just boys for so long i had no idea how catty women can be
dont get sucked into it
xoxoxoxo

[Beth]

93.

OK, this is really funny because I frequently feel like the last person left on earth who DOESN'T have any tattoos. And I live in suburban NJ not the East Village.

Anyway, I think you should keep trying at the library. The more often you go, the more you'll get to know people. And if they aren't talking to you because of the way you look then you really don't want them as friends anyway. But you already know that. It's still good for Tori even if the moms are snobs.

[Robin]

94.

My mommy war complaint is that there isn't enough weekend story time stuff for working mom's. Especially for the under three set and especially in the winter. You can't always go to the mall play area.

Good luck to you. As the other's said be yourself and be patient. (btw...You're not the only fat mommy out there. :)

[Shelley]

95.

I think this must be some sort of universal mom experience. I've felt self-conscious at the playground, but story hour is the worst. (For the record, I'm slender and fairly conventional-looking, but don't wear matching track pants and hoodies... just not my style. Now that I think of it, I kind of enjoy wearing my cowboy boots to these things just to show a little personality). I totally relate to that feeling of being out of place.

There are other activities you might try -- baby swim lessons are fun, mom/baby movement classes and so on -- maybe see what your local Y offers?

There's a website about mom's clubs, I think, too. And, I've always heard that it takes awhile to find a like-minded playgroup. Keep trying, Cecily -- I promise, IT'S NOT YOU, it just takes time and finding the right group.

[sara]

96.

I am so with you.

I don't know if its that I'm big (not just solid, I'm tall) or if I give off some vibe that says "Dork Girl!" but I have yet to really find a moms circle. I tried Kindermusic, I tried other stuff. The cliques are awful.

What has finally worked over time is trying to pursue out-of-event meetings with kids my kids hit it off with....

Oh - and Melissa upthread? The MOMs club that blew you off? Told me I wasn't welcome because I worked 20 hours a week, "which should give you plenty of social interaction." Yeah. Thanks.

I did find that in general, more direct interaction that a compliment was needed to even get a conversation going. Ask a question, say that your kid does the same thing theirs does (at the very least, it'll prompt adoration of Tori, which, y'know, also good. If not sufficient...

I dont' know where all these cliquey women come from. I always thought it was something girls got over sometime in the last bits of high school. Clearly, I was mistaken.

[Ruth]

97.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I don't think your perceptions of being ostracized have anything to do with moms or their cliques -- I think this is just about how making new friends is really hard when you are actually trying to do it (as opposed to just having it happen because you meet your friend's friend or work with someone every day, etc.). Whenever I've moved to live in a new place and have deliberately tried to make friends by going to a certain class or event or pub or whatever, I've felt like it wasn't working, regardless of how hard I've tried to be friendly. It's just HARD to meet people that way. Most people, it seems to me, prefer to be introduced through other people or through routine daily interaction, not just out of the blue. I think the commenters are right, you either have to stick with it and keep showing up until it works or find a different way to meet other moms.

[Wendy]

98.

Don't stop trying. You'll eventually make a friend, or rather Tori will make a friend, and that will make you have to be friends with the kid's mom. Don't over think it - it'll happen.

[Kristi]

99.

I'm new here (a lurker who's never posted) and I really enjoy your site. Most of the time, you are on target with your observations. However, believe me when I tell you, you are totally overanalyzing this. Mom-friends will come along naturally, without forcing or your trying all that hard. Tattoos, weight, crazy hair, whatever. I don't think any of that matters. If you keep seeing the same moms in the same places, you'll get to know each other without working at it all that hard. Stop worrying. You're doing great. And that baby of yours is adorable. And I apologize if I've just repeated what other people have said.

[Kathleen]

100.

Time, time and more time.

As a military family, we've moved a lot. Not once have I been "taken in" by a group after one or even two meetings. It just takes time. No matter who you are, even if you have "the look."

After reading the comments, I have to throw in that I don't think the other women at these things are bitches, Stepfords, catty or any other tired old sterotypes of women and/or mothers. Good grief.