Juno, or why adoption isn't cute

So it seems like every movie I've gone to see lately has been morbidly depressing. I Am Legend was horribly sad (I know, I just didn't expect that); Atonement, of course, I knew would be, but it was so much tougher than I thought (plus now I'm having nightmares about drowning in subway tunnels). I saw P.S. I Love You which was a MUCH better movie than it had a right to be (and a MUCH better movie than book--the book was awful, I couldn't even finish it--) but still--sad (Hilary Swank was horribly miscast, but did ok anyway).

So, when my mom was desperate for some Tori time this weekend and Charlie and I reviewed our movie options, he was excited to see Juno. This isn't shocking--the reviews are crazy good--but I was feeling pretty full of trepidation. I've read a lot about it; between reading about the very interesting woman that wrote it, and reading the stories of women that have been through similar experiences, and the stories of women that have adopted children, I wasn't sure I was up for a comedy about adoption. Because in the last four years that I've been reading blogs by women who were going through the adoption process, the one thing that has been clear to me is that IT IS NOT FUCKING FUNNY.

But we went.

Ten minutes into the movie it was clear that it was going to be cute. And by cute I mean over-the-top aren't we so fucking clever cute. The dialog was witty, snappy, and utterly and completely unbelievable--there is not a single teenager on the planet that talks the way Juno does. But still, I always enjoy hearing words put together well, so I was able to enjoy that aspect of the movie.

It was my understanding that abortion wasn't discussed at all in the movie, but that's not true. In fact, the first thing Juno does is call someone "to procure a hasty abortion." But she changes her mind because the baby has fingernails. For the first couple of days after I saw the movie I did not see this as an anti-choice movie--I thought, basically, that Juno was presented a choice and made a choice (and hey--I am ALL about choice). But now, after a few days away from the cuteness, I feel like it's actually a damned sly anti-choice statement--and that kind of pisses me off. Not only because of the whole "fingernails" thing, but because the whole movie makes the process of adoption look so easy and simple. Ug.

Anyway. Throughout the movie, I couldn't stop thinking about Kateri, a birth mom, and about this post (warning--tough read if you are an adoptive mom), were she talks about being:

"De-mothered. No one’s mother. Hit the reset button, reboot and start again. Motherhood erased. That’s how it was supposed to be."

It wasn't until nearly four years later that she felt the full pain of her choice:

"The anesthetic had worn off, and I was raw, naked, freshly separated. My body unleashed the primal force of loss so that I could not speak, I could not make a sound. I could not sob. I could not think. The hall of mirrors collapsed in shards stained with the blood of my psyche. Within a month I was suicidal."

In the last moments of the movie, this was all I could think about. Juno is happily playing guitar, her life is fine, and the baby is happy. All is well. Right?

I also couldn't help but think about Dawn and her experiences with her daughter and what she refers to as the "primal wound" her daughter suffered from leaving her birth mother. Now, Dawn has one of the best open adoption stories I've heard of, and it's clear that her daughter is wildly loved and loves in return (I know this because I got to meet them), yet she still talks about how much loss her daughter feels:

“When you were a little tiny baby,” I said and her sobbing quieted but she was still choking on the tears that kept running down her face. “When you were first born you stayed with Jessica in the hospital for three days. And then you came home to us and Madison, you were very sad then. Sometimes you cried a lot. I think it’s because you missed Jessica so much.”

It was like … I wish I could show you the look on her face. The floodgates opened back up but she had such … relief on her face. She was still crying, mind you. She cried for more than 45 minutes.

“It must have been scary for you,” I said. “You didn’t know me. You didn’t know Daddy. You didn’t know Noah. And you missed Jessica. You wondered where she was. I know she missed you, too, you have really missed each other.”

So, sure, in the movie the baby was in a good and loving home. I mean, my heart was with Jennifer Garner's character as the infertile mother throughout the movie (oh, she was perfect, I tell you). But I could not set all of my second-hand knowledge aside and just enjoy this movie. I worry, too, that all those teenage girls there in the theater with us, the ones that giggled as I wept when Jennifer Garner's character got down on her hands and knees at the mall to feel the baby move in Juno's belly, that all those girls will now have taken a big old swallow of the "adoption kool-aid" as Kateri calls it. That if they end up pregnant they will think it is just that easy; Juno at one point says she just wants to "squirt the kid out and get on with her life."

If only it were that easy. So, kids, view with caution. For normal people this movie may be light fare. For the rest of us? Not so much.

Comments

[Elle]

1.

I agree with all you've said about it. I didn't find the movie cute or poignant. I found Ellen Page rather unbelievable as a high schooler, which beforehand from the commercials I thought she was perfect. But there was some kind of lurking intelligence and depth in her that was never explored at all, or even hinted at. The movie didn't manage to reach the depths that a lifetime movie does, but it was all wrapped up in that "aren't we so cute" packaging. Hipster.

A few days later I saw Waitress. Also a very quirky, offbeat story about an unplanned pregnancy. All I can say is I recommend it whole-heartedly. What Juno failed to deliver, which is some real depth, Waitress has in spades, with all of it's quirky, fairytale-mockery cuteness. If you haven't seen it, rent it. It's awesome.

[Celeste]

2.

I saw Juno, I read Kateri, and I found the movie hard to take. (Spoilers abound.)

Every time they would start to get into something kind of heavy, they would just let it go with something kind of flip. I personally think most teens would come undone over the part where her dad gets the news and condemns her.

I expected Juno to connect her mom essentially kind of dumping her to go on and have a replacement family, with herself placing a child.

I was totally creeped out by the scenes of Juno and the prospective adoptive dad becoming too close.

I thought the scene in the mall was wrenching all around.

I struggled with the ultrasound tech assuming Juno would be a craptastic mother as much as I struggled with the decision to place the baby with a single mother.

I wanted more epilogue than Juno's note on the nursery wall and her singing with her boyfriend.

To me the most redeeming part of the movie was postpartum at the hospital, when Juno's parents said the right things to both of the mothers. I thought it was right and true to show Juno sobbing because that is so common to feel that way after all you go through no matter what your situation.

Verdict: this couldn't have been more hip and unrealistic if it was a Gilmore Girls movie.

[AmyinMotown]

3.

I think mothers who place their children for adoption do an amazing thing and deserve to be honored as first mothers. AND they deserve access, as much as they wish, to the children they placed. It has to be heartbreaking. But life is sometimes heartbreaking, and we all make choices that are sometimes the best we can do with a pile of shitty ones at the time. Someone once wrote, as par of a similar discussion, maybe even here, "Being infertile does not make ou entitled to someone else's child." Fair point. But being a biological parent does not automatically make you the highest and best parent for that child either.

But I can't read Dawn's blog, honestly, for as bizarre as I find her position. If you think adoption is a "primal wound" then why do that to an innocent child, much less a first mother trying to do the right thing? That sort of self-flagellation just makes no sense to me. If you think it's so terrible to rip a child from the bosom of her bio-family? Don't adopt. In the whole adoption triad, the child has no choice, and I can certainly understand how the first mother feels like she has little to none-- feelings about abortion, laws restricting it, family pressure, financial issues and so on can make it feel like her choices are incredibly narrow. But the adoptive parent can choose to involve themselves or not.

Adoption isn't cute or remotely like adopting a pound pet (the way it's often percieved in popular culture, I think) but it's not an evil either, and I resent when it's presented as all bad.

[Libby]

4.

Thank you for this. And thanks for pointing people to Kateri, who is wicked awesome.

[Rebecca]

5.

I had an abortion at 15.
My mom desperately wanted me to choose adoption, but I knew I wasn’t strong enough. I knew the moment I held that baby I would want to keep it.
And if anyone wants to argue that what I did was murder, I’ll just nod my head. I don’t regret bringing an unwanted child into the world. I do regret getting pregnant at fifteen. Some of you will say, that someone wanted that child, and maybe that’s true. I was trying to make a decision that would have the least impact on my family (oldest child syndrome). Anyway – Juno seems like a fairytale. Even teenage mothers have hormones.

[Melanie]

6.

For the most part, I hated Juno, although I thought that parts of it were amusing. I hated the fakey-fake dialogue and I hated the casual dismissal of abortion (which was far less funny than "shmashmorshon" in Knocked Up), the completely unrealistic portrayal of both the abortion clinic staffer ("my boyfriend like the blackberry flavored condoms") and the teenage protestor outside the clinic ("your baby wants to get bornded!"). It was all so offensively and unfairly phony I nearly sprained my eyeballs from rolling them so much.

I did, however, like the stepmother's dressing-down of the self-righteous and judgemental ultrasound technician -- I think that's the one thing Diablo Cody got right.

Also problematic: motherhood is portrayed as so wholeheartedly suburban, and you can tell by the shabby minivan's movement into J. Garner's ultra-tidy neighborhood that Cody means to critique that upper-middle-class "little boxes" way of life. Motherhood is messy, no matter how you slice it, but you're left feeling at the end of the movie that J. Garner's single-mother character is going to be able to have her cake and work it off on her Pilates machine, too. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

I could go on, but I have my own blog where I can crap on about this. My distaste for Juno has been brewing for weeks now, and it has intensified since its nomination for Best Picture this morning. Argh.

[Melanie]

7.

p.s. I loved "Atonement," get a little weepy just thinking about it. I've been meaning to go see it again for a while now, but am just too busy.

[Sarah]

8.

This post is really excellent, Cec. Well-said, all of it.
I honestly have no desire to see the movie now.

[Liana]

9.

I haven't seen the movie but have read all the talk about it on the adoption sites. As an adoptive mom, here's what I want to know. Isn't it possible that:

a) a firstmother makes an adoption plan, goes through with the adoption and feels that this was a good decision for her.

b) an adopted child does not have a "primal wound" and is raised happy and healthy.

and c) an adoptive mother can stop feeling guilty for loving the daughter that was entrusted to her by her firstmother.

I am so tired of hearing all that is wrong with adoption and the damage that it allegedly does to two of the three members of the triad. Can't adoption just ever work without Kateri's PTSD and Dawn's Primal Wound? Can't things ever just work?

[Janice]

10.

Ironically, eight days ago my Granddaughter was born. She entered my son and daughter-in-laws arms at 48 hours old. She is adopted. She is very much loved by her birth Mother, a Mother who chose a kind loving home where her child will never be cold, hungry, abused, uneducated, denied proper health care, or be forced to live in substandard housing. Instead, she carefully chose the best thing her heart had to offer. She chose for my children and their family to be her precious childs family. I pray for this strong young woman daily. I also praise God for the answer to so many prayers for my children.
Adoption is not an easy thing for either the birth or adoptive parents. It is very very hard. It is all about Love.

[Kristin]

11.

To Liana- No, I don't think it can. I think that is your wishful thinking. I've met too many mothers who have lost children to adoption and too many adopted children who are hurt and never feel right to think that the fantasy that most adoptive parents have is real in any way.

[Janice]

12.

I haven't seen the movie. But if the target audience is teenage girls then maybe, and I am probably reeaallllyy stretching it but maybe the simple message of this movie is "If you find yourself pregnant, tell someone." It's just as depressing and sickening to read news stories of newborns found in dumpsters and toilets because of pregnant teens who were so afraid to tell anyone that they hid their pregnancy.

[Kate]

13.

I was quite disturbed by the number of teenagers in the theater when we went to see this movie. I was heartbroken by the scene in the mall, which most of the teens laughed about (it isn't a funny scene,) creeped out by Jason Bateman, and I was especially disturbed by the girl, probably all of 15, seated behind me who commented in the middle of the film "Oh, I wish I was pregnant." Was that the message you wanted to send, Diablo Cody?
There were aspects of the movie I liked (specifically, Jennifer Garner) but, I couldn't get excited about telling others to see it. For what it is worth,I have no experience with adoption or infertility, and I still thought it was a bad representation of reality.

[Liana]

14.

So Kristin, if it is all my wishful thinking that I might raise a happy and healthy child, then why did I adopt? It sounds like you are saying that adoption NEVER works and the children and firstmothers are always broken by the process. Why don't we then move to outlaw the whole thing?

[legalmama]

15.

I've wanted to see this movie, but assumed that there would be many things about it that I would hate.

I probably won't see it, not for a long time, anyway, not when it is still a topic of conversation, because I'm sure I would have a lot of the same feelings about it that many of you have had, and I know that if I expressed those feelings to a general audience, they would think I was being sort of ridiculous. And that would annoy me. So maybe I will rent it some day, to watch by myself at home so I can shout at the screen.

[Elena]

16.

I think one thing that we could do a LOT better as a people is grief management. Especially in issues surrounding childbirth, there is no real opportunity in our society to grieve whether it's loss of a pregnancy, a bad birth experience, an abortion, or giving a baby up for an adoption. We're sort of a "pull it together and get on with it" type of culture. But obviously human beings aren't built that way. Grief and loss needs to be accepted and dealt with better than I think we currently do it.

[Elena]

17.

"Can't things ever just work?"

Lianna I know four families that have adopted a total of nine children. Two families adopted from Russia. One family adopted from South American. One family adopted slightly older children with a history of sexual abuse from another state. None were newborns. I think the oldest was around eight during the adoptions and the youngest under on. Those families and kids are all happy, healthy, working well. Several of the teenage boys are friends with my teenage boys and they are happy and normal with the usual teenage stuff. The kids from the abused background have been with their family now for over five years. There are still some developmental issues but other than that they are thriving.

[Dea]

18.

I saw Juno yesterday. As we were leaving I commented to my husband that the dialouge was too witty, and too unbelievable, but it was quick and funny.
The parts with the adoptive father and Juno made me a little squirmy, and they seemed out of place and strange in the movie.
The scene at the abortion clinic, while wierd with the protestor with her horrid English, didn't strike me as subtle pro-life. Although I knew from the trailers that she wouldn't get an abortion because I knew it was about adoption. I agree the scene at the mall was wrenching, and oddly that was when my baby started kicking like crazy and continued for the rest of the movie.
I think it was a good fluff movie, I can see why it's been nominated for best picture. However I can understand why anyone with infertility issues, or adoption issues may have problems with this movie. That all being said I will see it again when it's on DVD.

Also no one has mentioned Bleeker. I think he's important too, especially at the end where he chose to not see the baby. It shows that it affects him too. I think fathers are just so overlooked regarding any situations like this. It pains a mother to be infertile, but it also pains a father.

[Greta]

19.

Most of the time I agree with you cecily. I have to say on this one I do not.

I loved Juno. Absolutely loved it. I thought it was funny and sincere and very well done.

I don't understand why a movie just can't be what it is - a story. This was a story of a specific character and her specific situation and what she did with it. Was it "realistic"? Maybe not. But I really don't care. I don't expect movies to necessarily be realistic. They need to move me emotionally or intellectually.

I can totally understand being a 16 year old girl, getting pregnant, and wishing really bad that I hadn't gotten pregnant. Wishing that the whole thing would just go away. I can also understand not wanting to have an abortion. Just because it's legal and something we have a right to does not mean it's something we HAVE to do. Why is adoption worse than abortion? Why do we HAVE to choose to end the pregnancy over giving the child to someone who will love it and who can't have a child?

I don't understand the attitude that because a movie takes a different path than "pregant teen has abortion" that it's Anti choice? Juno made a choice. And now there are people saying that it was the WRONG choice? How can it be? Isn't that the whole point?

I have never been pregnant so I can't really speak from experience on this - and I can understand that there are people who have had abortions and who have put children up for adoption - and that this movie might mean something different for those people than it does for me.

[Lisa V]

20.

I am an adoptive mother in a working open adoption. My daughter is 16, so we've been at it awhile. We both have a great relationship with her birth mother. Her birth mother would agree it has worked for us. She actually wrote a post on my blog saying so.

So yes, our individual adoption is essentially happy and peaceful. That doesn't mean it hasn't come at a price for all of us, but higher for my daughter and her other mother.

For me, examing some of the problems with adoption in general, even if they aren't part of my adoption in particular, is being responsible.

I believe adoption has to change and be more ethical to raise the possibility of a good outcome for more birth and adoptive families.

This doesn't make me anti-adoption. I'm pro-adoption but I want it to be as ethical as possible.

By the way Dawn isn't anti-adoption either.

I saw Juno and it caused me a tremendous amount of pain. It's not that Juno placed that caused me pain, but the way that placement was portrayed. Easy, without a counselor, without the birth father expressly giving his consent, instead just going along with the ride. It gave the Lifetime movie version of adoption. We have that too much in the world. People outside of adoption are sold this "old school" adoption story too much and consider it more than a movie, but a guide.

[Rach]

21.

One other thing that's worth m entioning, while we're at it, is the way abortions are portrayed in movies. I've seen the same thing there; everything's happy and fine and people move on. No PTSD on the part of the mom, nothing. And I think that's what the entire abortion industry would love us to believe. It's a 400 million dollar a year industry, after all.

[maggie]

22.

I got as far as Liana' comment and then stopped reading. I agree with everything Liana said and she said it much better than I could. And yes, I adopted my daughter and for some reason I think she is going to be just fine even though she was adopted. I think mom's who give up their child for adoption are amazing and selfless. I think people who adopt are so lucky and blessed (I know I am). I think that sometimes it just works out ok.

Also, I read the two posts you connected to and I did not feel at all that I wanted to cry - I actually thought they were a bit self serving and over the top. Maybe there is something wrong with me...

I did not see Juno and have no desire to. I am glad you got away for some hubby/wife time. :)

Maggie

[Laura]

23.

I have not seen the movie, was not interested in the trailors but as an adult adoptee i do want to respond to this particular comment...going to answer in caps so the answer is seperated from the afore mentioned comment...am not yelling or saying my thoughts are correct just that they are my thoughts.

"a) a firstmother makes an adoption plan, goes through with the adoption and feels that this was a good decision for her."

SOME DO MANY DONT, THEY ARE FORCED BY PARENTS TO GIVE UP THEIR BABIES. GRANTED THIS MAY NOT BE AS PREVELANT AS IT USED TO BE BUT STILL IT HAPPENS JUST AS MANY GIRLS ARE FORCED TO HAVE ABORTIONS BY THEIR PARENTS (PLEASE DONT SAY IT DOES NOT HAPPEN I WORKED AT A PLANNED PARENTHOOD FOR A WHILE AND SAW IT ALOT.)

"b) an adopted child does not have a "primal wound" and is raised happy and healthy."
AGAIN, SOME DO NOT HAVE A "PRIMAL WOUND" MANY DO! I HAVE SUFFERED FROM NOT KNOWING AND KNOWING AS I WAS ADOPTED AT 8 WEEKS AND IN THE LATE 60'S OPEN ADOPTION WAS NOT SO COMMON. MY PERSONAL BELIEF IS ALL ADOPTIONS SHOULD BE OPEN AT LEAST TO THE CHILD. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW EVEN IF THE BIRTH PARENT/S SAY NO WE STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK AND KNOW IF WE WANT TO.

" c) an adoptive mother can stop feeling guilty for loving the daughter that was entrusted to her by her firstmother."
THIS I HAVE SOME STRANGE THOUGHTS ON... I THINK MY MAIN QUESTION IS WHY SHOULD THE ADOPTIVE MOTHER FEEL ANY GUILT? I HAVE NEVER MET A CHILD WHO SUFFERED FROM TOO MUCH LOVE.
AND, I WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT ALL BIRTH MOTHERS BELIEVE THEY ARE GIVING THEIR BABY TO A MOTHER /FATHER WHO WOULD LOVE THAT BABY AS THEIR OWN SINCE IT IS THEIR OWN. SHRUG... JUST MY THOUGHT THERE

"I am so tired of hearing all that is wrong with adoption and the damage that it allegedly does to two of the three members of the triad. Can't adoption just ever work without Kateri's PTSD and Dawn's Primal Wound? Can't things ever just work?"

IN ASWER TO THIS RHETORICAL (IN MY BOOK) QUESTION... MANY MANY MANY TIMES IT IS ALL RIGHT IT IS ALL GOOD FOR ALL PARTIES INVOLVED, UNFORTUNATELY PEOPLE DONT COMPLAIN LOUDLY WHEN THINGS ARE ALL GOOD, YOU USUALLY HEAR OF ONLY THE BAD THINGS. MOST OF THE PEOPLE I HAVE MET IN MY LIFE WHO ARE A PART OF THE TIRAD (AND I HAVE MET MANY MANY) HAVE SOME FORM OF HURT OR DARE I SAY REGRET IN HOW THEY DEALT WITH THE SITUATION BUT I DO KNOW OF SOME THAT JUST WORK.
MINE IS NOT ONE OF THOSE THAT JUST WORKED IT IS A BOOK UNTO ITSELF AND THANK GOD IN HEAVEN ABOVE I AM NOT LIKE MY BIOLOGICAL MOTHER NOR AM I LIKE MY ADOPTIVE MOTHER, FATHERS EITHER FOR THAT MATTER. I HAVE LONG AGO REFUSED TO PLACE BLAME ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER AND CLAIMED RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN LIFE AND HAPPINESS (SINCE AGE 14 ) AND THAT HAS WORKED FOR ME. IT HAS BEEN ONE HELL OF A ROLLERCOASTER RIDE ALONG THE WAY AND THE ONE TRUE REGRET OR THING I WISH I COULD HAVE HAD CONTROL OF OR MADE COME OUT DIFFERENTLY WAS THE HURTS MY ADOPTION CAUSED MY HALF SIBLINGS AND MY WHOLE SIBLING. ANYWAY JUST MY THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT.

[Marianne]

24.

I haven't even seen the movie yet and I've got a bad feeling about it. I did see a trailer too where the father of Juno says something to his wife, "I'm not ready to be Poppi (Grandpa) yet" and my first thought was "You already ARE a Poppi!" Yikes.

[dawn]

25.

Cecily, I love you. Thank you for this post.

You know what makes me crazy? This all or nothing mentality. Adoption is not all good nor is it all bad. Madison is not just a walking primal wound -- she is a full-fledged human being who suffered the loss of her mother when she was three days old. If her mother had died, no one would argue against this loss or insist she was FINE but because her mother chose to place her, everyone thinks I'm a dandy, fit-in-the-slot replacement.

I don't see why being happy and healthy and grieving the loss of adoption is outside of the realm of to people who argue there is no primal wound. Maybe being happy and healthy is more easily possible when kids are allowed to INTEGRATE that loss into their lives.

I sure as hell don't think my daughter is damaged goods because of the adoption. And I don't think Pennie -- her birth mom -- is damaged goods because of the adoption. But that doesn't mean that I have to shut my eyes to the reality of the loss for them both.

[DoctorMama]

26.

I mostly liked the movie.
One problem I have with the view that adoption creates a wound for everyone involved is that it is another example of people insisting that women must feel a certain way. It used to be that unwed mothers were told they shouldn't feel upset about adoption. Now it's that they SHOULD feel upset. And so should the children, and so should the adoptive parents ... Every pregnancy is its own story. I think the movie actually conveyed that, to some extent. (The problem I have with the idea of the primal wound to the infant has to do with it making no scientific sense, but that's another topic.)
I found the movie to be kind to characters when I didn't expect it. I liked that.

[Rachel]

27.

I got pregnant at 17. I'm almost 30 now. I'm a mother of three. I was very interested in this movie, to see a portrayal of teenage pregnancy. I thought it was artfully done. In fact, I thought it was pretty beautiful. It wasn't a guidebook to adoption.
I identified with Juno as a person looking for something that makes sense in a world that doesn't seem sensible. The enormity of a pregnancy as a teenager is crushing.
There were moments in this movie that were really irreverent, but there were also parts that were so real. Both the stuffing of emotion and the way it bubbled up. And the hope - which a sixteen year old girl has - that there is such a thing as love. And this movie spoke in many ways about all kinds of love - familial, romantic, etc.

[Seis]

28.

I have not seen this movie, but I can relate to being young and pregnant and just wanting it to go away. I have been that girl. I chose to have an abortion, and I regret it. I didn't regret it for a long time (not until my thirties). I had swallowed the abortion kool aid. I told myself I could not give up my child, this was my choice, and I would not be a good mother. I still believe all of those things were true. I would not have been a good mother and my ex would not have been a good father. I would have probably damaged that child in many ways. I am still regret my choice, because I believe in myself now enough to know I could have overcome all of those things. I think all unwanted pregnancies no matter how they end have kool aid involved. Those who keep their children tell themselves everything will work out somehow. Those who place them elsewhere tell themselves they are going to be better off. Lastly, those of us who have abortions lie to ourselves and tell ourselves we can put this all behind us. All of us are drinking the Kool Aid.

[Kristin]

29.

Liana- I do think that adoption should be ended as an institution. Australia has done it, and no, kids are not languishing in orphanages. Young and poor parents are being supported in keeping their kids, better contraception and abortion access are making more babies wanted babies, and guardianship replaces adoption in the few rare cases when the other options don't work.

[sandra]

30.

Being an adopted child, I may have to go see that movie. I imagine my adoptive family went thru a lot of what may be in the movie since it was a very dramatic few years for them!

By the way...I tagged you over on my blog: http://ma2jenna.wordpress.com/

[JuliaKB]

31.

The first thing I heard about the movie was that Juno is easy-going happy in the end, and that she didn't want the open adoption, but wanted to kick it old school. Decided then and there that I really didn't want to see that. For your exact reasons.
Then today I heard on the radio the interview with the actress who played Juno and they described the abortion discussion in the movie and the host asked the actress whether she thought the movie had anti-choice message. She said no, it's a movie about making this particular choice, but that it's important to her personally that the choice exists. And again, it just sounded fishy to me. Just fishy. Plus, the thing is classified as a quirky little movie. About teenage pregnancy and adoption? Quirky? Yeah, that's the right tone, of course.

[kt]

32.

Random thoughts: My brother, who is 11 months older than me, is adopted. I am not, nor is my younger brother. We are now 50 and 51. I recently asked my older brother if he ever felt "different" in the family, or if anything was "missing" or "hurting" from having been adopted. The short answer: not at all. So there's at least one adoptee out there who doesn't feel a primal wound. (I think the main person who was wounded was actually me, for when I overheard my mother explain to him that all the other parents in the neighborhood had to simply accept the children born to them, but that he was chosen and therefore so clearly wanted, my little 4 year old brain translated this as "my parents got stuck with me". Gradually as I matured, I came to lose that feeling, but it took several years. Seems silly now, but children have pretty complex emotions.) I also think, becuase I am not the self-assured person that my brother is, that I probably would have felt a sense of loss throughout my life had I been adopted, but only if I knew I was adopted. I also wonder if super-open adoptions actually cut deeper to the child- if the person who gives them up remains an abstraction, wouldn't this be less painful than having knowledge of the person who gave them up? Would any anger be experience differently, different in type or depth?
I do have to admit that I was astonished that my older daughter appeared to recognize my voice on the day she was born- mine was the only voice she would turn to listen to. So I do think that there is a prenatal connection that is made. I don't know how you would prove, using scientific method, that an actual neurologic developmental change occurs because of the severing of that connection.
Haven't seen the movie. I do know the reviews were excellent, but obviously a viewers assessment is colored by personal experiences.

[Sherry]

33.

I'm with the lady wayyyyyyyy in the back of the comment pack who basically said, can't we just accept this for what it is? A fictional movie? A work of art? Someone else's interpretation of a situation? If everything we watched for entertainment actually mirrored real-life? It wouldn't be entertaining.

[Beth A.]

34.

I haven't seen the movie, but I heard an interview on NPR with Diablo Cody when it first came out. The interviewer asked her directly if she was making a statement about abortion in the movie and she said no, she's definitely pro-choice, but since the story revolves around pregnancy, it would make for a very short movie if the heroine got an abortion.

[amy]

35.

So... I thought the whole "fingernails" thing was satirical. I'm apparently the only person who heard it that way because every other thing I've read about this movie has mentioned it as "the reason she doesn't abort", but every time someone mentioned "fingernails" I would have sworn it was with mild eye-rolling, implying that the idea that something trivial like fingernails would somehow make the difference to this major decision was ridiculous. (My impression of her reason for not aborting was the lack of support at the clinic.) I apparently wasn't watching the same movie as everyone else, and I wonder if anyone would have liked my version better?

[Leah]

36.

I have not seen the movie and won't. The trailers make it look as if it is a cute and funny movie about a teen who gets pregnant. I'm sorry, but I don't think teen pregnancy is cute or funny and I have a real issue with movies that make it look like it is.

Teen pregnancy has very long term consequences for the teen parents, their families, and the baby - regardless of whether the baby is kept, or given up for adoption, or even aborted.

[Laura]

37.

in hopes that KT reads this, this is my answer to her question:

" I also wonder if super-open adoptions actually cut deeper to the child- if the person who gives them up remains an abstraction, wouldn't this be less painful than having knowledge of the person who gave them up? Would any anger be experience differently, different in type or depth?"

Imagine if you will knowing you are adopted from the earliest memories as my mom decided it would be foolish for her to try to tell anyone she had given birth to a baby that was 8 weeks old and she had not been pregnant past a couple months (4 miscarriages)*smart on moms part i think* anyway, being a kid in school and having to do projects on your family and having a teacher say well this is not your blood family so i can't accept this, or going to the dr office and them asking family history and giving you "the look" of pity when your mom answers "we really dont know shes adopted." always feeling somewhat different and not being sure if it is a bad thing or a good thing. yes, my parents told me i was chosen and very wanted. all the while keep in mind i was brought up in a very mentally and physically abusive home. not all adopted kids are this is just MY story. My adoption was closed as most in the late 60's were, so i had very little information (actually i think now that i was given more information than most as my parents hid nothing from me weather it was from my asking or being tossed at me as words intended to cause pain.) I had a hole in me that nothing could fill, not drugs not alcohol not sex not the good things in life nothing could fill but my biological mother. well 15 years later i know my biological mother, father, siblings and guess what the hole is there still but thats because of the way my biological parents decided to handle the situation. They choose to lie about everything, then 8 years after pretending to want me and my family my father died and my mother showed her true self and removed herself and my sister from our lives. would i have been better off not knowing? NO! a resounding NO. yes, the hole is there but its a different hole now because i now know that i was not a wanted pregnancy and that no matter if i had been *insert the most famous most accomplished most anything here* that i still would not have been what my biological mother wanted. In short, LOL, in my very humbled opinion the TRUTH no matter how painful is ALWAYS the best option and to keep basic information on who you are, where you come from, why you are is just creating a hole in a person. some question me about had my childhood been different would i still have had the driving need to know ... and i believe yes i would have but, like all things there are different opinions and i know from my own friends and families who have been through adoption many never want to know and thats ok too i still think that every adoptee on the earth should be given the option if it is possible.
gee i cant give a simple short answer can i LOL. one last thought here... i have been asked if things could be different would i want them to have been... NO WAY i like who i am and where i am in life and had a single thing been done, handled differently then i would not be who and where i am today!

[Kelly]

38.

I loooved Juno. And I do know teenagers who talk like that -- cool, calm irony fuels many of the teen set these days. I sobbed for Juno after the birth. The hospital scene was very poignant. It was a movie and it was hollywood, but I found nothing inappropriate about the choices Juno made; including the choice to go on with her life, to find pleasure in the things a young person should enjoy (hanging with the boyfriend, singing, playing guitar).

Did the movie address the issues birth moms and adoptees struggle with? No. Should it have? No -- leave that to some other film. This one was fine on its own.

PS Michael Cera is about the cutest thing ever. Is it wrong that this married 38 year old *hearts* him big time?

[Melissa in TN]

39.

I always love your movie reviews. I don't think I can watch this one.

This is totally off topic, but the Princess Tori picture in the corner is totally precious. She is adorable!!!!

[Chickenpig]

40.

All I can say is adoption certainly works for some people. My mother works with a little girl who is 4 years old who is in the process of being adopted by her foster mother. This little girl is absolutely amazing, and has been through hell. She has some gaping wounds, no doubt about it, all made by her nasty, incompetent, biological parents. Those wounds are now thankfully on the mend.

Adoption also worked for my mother's best friend, who adopted a little boy born addicted to crack, whose mother just walked right out of the hospital and never looked back.

Maybe adoption doesn't work if you absolutely have to have a baby, preferably a white baby, without any baggage or complications...but I think it works fine for plenty of kids who wouldn't have a fighting chance in hell without being adopted.

[maggie]

41.

Kristen - The only reason I get to be a mom to my amazing adopted daughter is because adoption is legal in the states - and I thank god for that. Only those who can not have a biological child will understand the overwhelming despair you go through. I KNOW with ever fiber of my being that you either dont want children or are able to reproduce. Trust me when I tell you that if you were not able to have children, you would not feel that way. Sometimes adoption can be a good thing for all involved! Maggie

[Shandra]

42.

I have a totally different perspective I guess.

As a member of one of the most stupidly portrayed, frequent "surprise villain/plot mechanism" groups going (multiples) I have come to believe that the problem is never one of filmmaking, but of lack of a balanced approach to whatever the issue is in society. Because it's only in a context where most regular multiples are invisible that the film portrayals become the only one in people's minds.

I guess adoption may be one of those areas too.

But for me, I really can't blame Juno for not being the ultimate sensitive portrayal of adoption, or teen pregnancy, or having overly witty dialogue (and I like Tenessee Williams too:)). I think it does well on its artistic merits. It's a good story, the characters are strong, etc.

I actually find it refreshing in a world where women's sexuality, particularly teen sexuality, is still presented in a context where if you screw up, you must pay and it must be life-altering, forever.

What I hear people saying is "where's the payment? (for getting pregnant)" Why is Juno not bereft?

The thing is even if 999,999 women are bereft about their adoptions, the 1,000,000 might not be - and that is still a legitimate story.

Juno should not have to be "everywoman" - but because female reproductive decisions are still seen as a moral yardstick, and because there is still a mystique and taboo about REAL adoptions this film gets judged that way.

[BrooklynGirl]

43.

I don't think that any movie in which the pro-life voice is represented by a call for babies to be "borned" can be anti-choice. I just don't.

Yes, Juno is happily playing her guitar at the end of the movie, but I don't think that means she'll grow into adulthood without any regrets about the adoption any more than that means that she and Bleeker will stay together happily ever after. Life is complicated. These filmmakers know this, which is why they broke Vanessa and Mark up.

I don't think the movie makes adoption look easy--easier than real life, sure, but this is the movies and everything is easier in the movies. Had Vanessa and Mark stayed together and had Juno been bopping over to watch slasher films with Mark and jam on the guitar, well, then I would have had an issue. But when that whole illusion falls apart, it seemed to me that the movie was virtually screaming, "See, it ain't that simple."

But then again, this is the first movie I've seen in a theater in about 6 months so I'm still on a movie popcorn high.

[birdie]

44.

I tend to agree with BrooklynGirl. (Especially the part about being on a popcorn high- Seeing Juno was our 2nd date since the kid was born in Sept.) For my part, I thought the movie was entertaining and I loved the music. I'm sure that I would view it differently, however, if I had personal experience with teen pregnancy/adoption/abortion/infertility/etc. Its neat to read everyone's comments- you always start the best discussions, Cecily!

[Liana]

45.

Maggie: you said it!

[Christine]

46.

I haven't seen the movie yet (mainly because I can't find time to pee by myself, much less get out of the house without the wee beasties).

But, as for some of the comments here: I am of the mind that adoption can work well. But please, please don't compare domestic infant adoption to international or foster-adoption. There's a huge difference between parents who place an infant at birth and parents whose rights are terminated for abuse.

[Rach]

47.

Kristin - I'm going to go ahead and agree with Maggie. I would be SHOCKED if I learned you had children by adoption. It's one thing to say it in theory, right? That adoption should be outlawed, unless you're the one sitting in the RE's office being told that having a biological child will never happen for you. Then all of the armchair philosophizing is thrown out the window, and that's your reality.

By the way, I have 2 bio kids and have never adopted, but I think, like anything else, adoption standards in this country probably need some reform. I think it's RIDICULOUS that adopting a child can cost upwards of $30,000. But I have seen far too many awesome people become parents through adoption to have the view that it should be banned.

And, speaking to the birth mother part of it - a friend of mine just recently chose to give her baby up for adoption. The road is definitely not all roses - but for her, she knew she chose to do the right thing. for HER.

[Kathleen]

48.

Australia is having it's problems as well.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21641007-5001031,00.html

[sk]

49.

I liked the movie. It was cutesy and a bit over the top, but when you're out for an evening without 2 children screaming at you it seems like a very nice evening out. It wasn't meant to be a deep and thought provoking movie. I cried when the adopting mom was on her knees at the mall talking to the baby. I cried when Juno gave birth and realized that she just gave up her baby. All in all I think it was a cute movie and nothing to take seriously. The screenplay writer was a stripper when she wrote this and said she put a lot of herself into Juno. I don't think it was her life story or anything, but still interesting to know that she put herself into that character. Either way, I'm thrilled for the woman who wrote it. Can you imagine going from being a stripper to making a huge movie like that?

[Kate]

50.

Kristin, Australia has not done away with adoption. I don't know about other states, but Victoria certainly still has it.

http://www.office-for-children.vic.gov.au/adoption-permanent-care/apc

[Juanita]

51.

My husband is the father of two adopted adult children. They are both well-adjusted, happy people. Neither one of my step-children has shown any interest in meeting their birth parents. As far as I can see, they have no "primal wounds". To them the term adoptive parents has no meaning. The people who raised them with so much love and taught them how to be responsible adults are their parents. Period. To say adoption should be outlawed is ludicrious. As to the movie, I liked it. It is a story and, as such, not necessarily how things work in real life.

[Cheryl]

52.

Oops, late to the comments party here, but thanks for talking about your perspective on this film. I had many of the same feelings, and no one else I know who saw the film understood why I thought it was flippant.

[Robyn]

53.

I've been thinking about this a lot before commenting as this is a huge issue in my life at this time. I have 3 children, my middle son was adopted at 11 months and my youngest son we are in the process of adopting (we have been his foster parents since he was a week old.) I've gone through the grief with both of my boys, yes even at a week old. I think that they really do feel the loss but I also think that loss does not lessen what I am to them as their mom now. I also know that as much as I love my boys with my whole heart I have never wanted them so much as to cause someone else pain. I am in the crowd whose children were taken b/c of situations that I can not begin to imagine. That saying, my children's birthmoms are respected people within our family. No matter what happened and how they came us we understand the gift we have.

I haven't seen this movie (or even heard of it actually) but this discussion has hit close to home as I am preparing to attend the termination of my little guys birth mom's rights a few weeks. I hope none of my boys have the "primal wounds" but I also hope that if they do we as parents are able to help them through it. I found a quote the other day, it said "Blood may be thicker than water, but love is thicker than blood."

[Sherry]

54.

Sorry I'm late commenting.
I thought the movie was good and the music in it was even better.
I would like to have been that articulate and ready with the one-liners as Juno when I was a teen - so what if no one really is - it's a MOVIE.
I was pregnant at 19 and kept my daughter - for many reasons, only one of which was because I bonded with her from the first moment I felt her move. I thought I loved her more than anyone else on earth ever could.

Maybe some birth mothers don't have that reaction, but I did. And I'm not saying that adoptive mothers can't love their children just as much, if not more, than biological mothers.
My situation turned out as well as I could make it, being the intelligent, resourceful young woman I was. Sure I was on food stamps and WIC for awhile, till I made it out of college, and sure, I lived in a cramped apartment with my daughter until her father and I got married, but it was clean, it was safe and she was loved.

She is a teenager now and we have talked extensively about pregnancy and what's best for her life and while I would never wish that she wasn't born just the person that she is, in the time she was - that situation shaped who she and I both are today - it was still far from ideal. I recognize that. But I don't keep it a secret from her, how she got here. She knows she was AT our wedding - being held by her aunt. And that's ok.

I don't think the movie was advocating one position or another. I think it's a story and I love a good story.
Plus the music rocked.

[Kateri]

55.

thanks for posting about this, cecily. it's been interesting reading. and thanks for linking to me.

i've posted my response on my blog.

[Holly]

56.

I haven't seen this film, but I think I share some of your grievances. I have some very conflicted feelings about adoption. I love the Adoption series on the Hallmark channel, and cheer on the families who adopt infants and children of all ages. If you are Charlie had not had Tori and had pursued adoption instead, I would have been thrilled for you. I know that adoption helps create families and gives loving homes to kids who otherwise might have been neglected and unloved.
But I have a negative feeling towards adoption overall. I hate the anti-abortion stance that women with unplanned pregnancies can 'just' place their children for adoption. I hate the idea that young, poor mothers are baby farms for middle class couples. It seems a little too Handmaid's Tale for me.

[kt]

57.

Laura, I did read your comment. Perhaps you did not understand mine. In no way did I say the child should not be told they are adopted. I think every child should be told the truth about adoption or donor gametes, around the age of 5, as was my brother. And in fact, when his daughter did her family tree in school, she included his adoption story in it. My question revolved around the children who are adopted so openly that they have detailed information or even meet their birth mother as a young child, rather than as a mature adult. I think this would be very confusing and therefore more wounding to a young child. I do believe there should be a centralized, national data bank of adoption information, so that as an adult the adoptee could easily arrange to meet the birth parents, if the birth parents so desire. I am sorry you are so wounded. But please try to understand that some adoptees, like my brother, feel that they grew up happy and hole, which to me implies that the cirumstances to the sdoption and te adopting family are crucial, not the adoption itself.

[Maura]

58.

Juno is the only movie I've seen in theaters since Sicko, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Maybe it's because I had been an a black depression earlier the day I saw it --- I was reading the paper that afternoon and read:

1) That a woman in Massachusetts had taken her toddler niece and nephew and walked into traffic on a highway with them, killing them all (the children were children of her identical twin sister)

2) A man took a toddler and threw him off a bridge into traffic below.

I couldn't believe that there were two such news stories in a single day, and I just got overwhelmed with grief and sadness. So Juno was for me a really effective and enjoyable antidote.

I wasn't unaware that the movie was being flip at times (most of the time) but I tried to just ride it and enjoy it for what it was on the surface.

The main scene that really annoyed me was the abortion clinic scene -- it was so off base, in my experience. The people at my planned parenthood clinic in college and locally have been the most kind, professional, wonderful health practitioners I've known in general. The movie's portrayal of the receptionist was absurd.

I thought the movie effectively portrayed both Juno's denial and the depth of her grief and aloneness at times. And, hey, I'm a sucker for a happy ending and a good soundtrack.

If only Jason Bateman's character had been portrayed getting herpes, it would have been perfect. :-)

(Ah, no I don't really wish herpes on anyone, since it's incurable. Maybe just crabs or something. What a douche he was!)

[curiousgyrl]

59.

The circumstances of ones birth and relationship with those who raise you are almost universally a source of pain, grief, loss, identity, strength, love, etc. In a word, complex emotion.

I have divorced parents and two adopted immediate relatives; the idea that adoptees don't experience serious loss, or at least deep emotional experiences associated with their birth parents and adoptive families, is as absurd to me as the idea that my parents divorce could have had "no effect" on me. Of course it had an effect! But I am who I am because of it and have the family I have because of it and I love all of us.

[Aurelia]

60.

Cecily, I'm sorry you had to wade into the adoption blog nightmare. There's a reason I blog so rarely about being an adoptee and my feelings about it. Hell, there's a reason so many adoptee and birth mother blogs go PW protect. Between the sheer overwhelming ignorance of most people on the subject and the utter denial of adoptive families about the impact of adoption on the children they say they love? Not worth the effort. I hope you are okay after this.

To slightly correct Doctor Mama: There is scientific evidence of primal wound theory, mainly done by a branch of medicine called infant psychiatry, but also by pediatric neurologists who know from blood tests and fMRIs that primal would exists. There are some specialists who have proven that permanent changes in the brain occur as a direct result of the trauma an infant goes through after separation from it's biological family. Because of neuroplasticity they believe it's possible to heal it, but it's still a very new field, so research is ongoing.

To the adoptive parents who have discounted the adoptees on this thread because the adoptees aren't infertile? Nice to see you thinking that your pain of infertility should outrank our pain as adoptees. Nice denial of the very real reality we live with every single day. FYI, pain is pain, and there is no pyramid in which one outranks the other.

I am an infertile adoptee, and I agree with the adoptees completely. I have premature ovarian failure and have buried three children. I know the hideous pain of being told by an RE to give up hope. And I still would not feel entitled to take another woman's child, EVER. Even when I was desperate. Even when I was suicidal. Even if they were poor, or stupid, or patently obviously, a bad bad mother.

By some miracle, I have managed to have two kids along the way, and I am finally amazingly expecting a third. But even among all of the infertile adoptees who don't ever manage to have bio kids, I don't know any who would go through infant domestic adoption. Foster adoption, or adoption of an older child who truly needs a home, possibly. But that is not the situation most adoptive parents want. They only want the healthy white newborns, the perfect children. And they pay big bucks to get them. And as Time and Newsweek magazine recently reported, up to 20% of those APs return the kids because they just don't want them. Turns out they had very unrealistic expectations, and when the kid doesn't live up to those expectations? They refuse to accept the cards they have been dealt and give up.

So no adoption is not all sunshine and roses. Nothing in life is.

To those commenters who have adoptive siblings or kids who are just "fine", Black Americans don't tell white people what it's really like to be black in America. GLBT people don't ever tell straight people what it's really like to live in a heterosexual dominant culture. Do you actually think that the adoptee you know will EVER tell you the real truth. They love you, and like all adoptees, they are terrified of being rejected once again. So they won't tell you the truth, because they don't want you to feel bad. To feel guilty. We have been trained to be people pleasers, and we do it very very well.

If I wasn't pseudononymous, I couldn't write this. Adoptees can talk amongst ourselves and admit the truth. We know.

Juno is a problem because mainstream America has almost no portrayals of birthmothers to draw on. And just as when there was only Bill Cosby and Oprah on TV, it's a problem. One person should not have to shoulder the weight of an entire class of people. And when it's a stereotype like Juno is, it's a problem.

Apologies for literally posting on your blog Cecily.

[Danielle]

61.

Wow, what a great post and insightful comments that followed. I certainly have a lot to learn about adoption.

I saw the movie and thought it was very entertaining, but parts were definitely bothersome. However, it is just a movie, and so many movies are not true to life. I must admit as an infertile, that when Juno says to Vanessa that she's lucky she isn't the one that is pregnant, I started crying. The look on Jennifer Garner's face was perfect- she did a great job playing that role.

[Kristin]

62.

I don't think that being infertile is a valid excuse for stealing another woman's child. Just because you desperately want a baby doesn't entitle you to one. Infertility is a horrible tragedy, and anyone who struggles with it has my full empathy. I don't think that it gives anyone the right to buy another human being and participate in an inhuman institution. Maybe think of the baby and it's family before yourself, huh?

And if you are so brainwashed by the adoption industry that you think you are saving a child with your money, why don't you give some of that money to the child's family so they can raise it? That would really be saving a child.

[justanotherblogger]

63.

Adoption isn't cute, but should it really be BANNED?

I'm not out to defend the movie in any way, and I agree that the public is influenced by what they see in movies and so on, but it's not a documentary, it's fiction.

Any educated person *should* be able to distinguish that. But I know many won't. That fact is true far beyond this one movie!

The post itself was very thoughtful and made valid points. A few of the comments however have me wondering why people feel the need to be so hostile and so cruel.

Kristin, what a brilliant idea! Infertiles everywhere should just donate money to families who have children they can't afford to raise. Imagine how beautiful this world would be! (Now THAT sounds like the makings of a fairy tale).

[Liana]

64.

Kristin: Here is the definition of stealing:

1 a: to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully b: to take away by force or unjust means c: to take surreptitiously or without permission d: to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of

2 a: to move, convey, or introduce secretly : smuggle b: to accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner

3 a: to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring b: of a base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and usually catching the opposing team off guard

OK, so with that out of the way, my daughter's firstmother placed this child into my arms at an entrustment ceremony for me to raise of her own free will. There was no trickery, no deception, and no payment. She is a strong, intelligent woman who would defy you to say that she doesn't and didn't know her own mind. She's a soldier and could probably beat your ass easily for the insult.

So I am unclear how what I just described could in any way be thought of as "stealing." She made a decision. I honor that decision.

[juliag]

65.

hmmm... i'm not on any end of the adoption (or infertility) spectrum. i thought the dialogue between the teens was a little too much at times. but i loved all the parts with the adoptive parents. that seemed really real to me. the creepy, disengaged dad. the hopeful, scared mom. i did think that juno was a little too removed from the pregnancy to be believeable. i didn't bond with my DS the second i felt him move, but i was constantly aware of him on a lot of levels. in fact, it almost felt like two different movies to me...one so emotionally real/complex and the other so flip and cutesy.

[maggie]

66.

Aureila - with all respect, you can only say you would never adopt because you have 3 kids. I realize you were adopted, I realize that you went through miscarages but you have 3 kids. That is the difference. YOU HAVE 3 KIDS. You are a MOM. I appreciate your thoughts, I hope you appreciate mine. Maggie

[Lisa]

67.

Haven't read all the comments, but I did just get home from seeing the movie. I commented to my friend on the way out "Is that how teenagers talk these days?" The language seemed pretty false to me.

I don't know if it intended to be pro-life but the abortion clinic was certainly ridiculous to say the least. I can't see how they could hire such a receptionist, I've been to Planned Parenthood on two coasts and never encountered such callous rudeness -- didn't she say something like "We need to know about every sore?" or something like that?

The parts with Jason Bateman completely icked me out and made me angry that he could go through with the adoption process for six months and then decide he'd rather flirt with fun, young Juno than be with his wife who had obviously been suffering from the affects of infertility and a previous failed adoption. It seemed like another case of a man walking away from real life, looking for only things that are easy and fun and involve zero responsibility.

I can't really comment on the adoption aspect of things as I have very little experience in that regard. Do I think the gut wrenching aspects of adoption can be wrapped up in a pretty bow? No. But I do think that people are often dealt a crappy hand in life and we all just do the best we can, however.

Overall, I thought the movie was just ok. Ellen Page was great, though.

[Aurelia]

68.

Maggie, just to clarify I have TWO living children, both of whom were conceived after going through infertility, primary IF and secondary IF. I am halfway through the third pregnancy and with my history, I have no guarantee of getting a live baby out of it.

My first pregnancy at 27 was a shocking surprise after being told at 21 by my laparoscopic surgeon that I would never get pregnant outside of a lab because of my endometriosis.

And in all those years, I never would've adopted unless it was an older child out of foster care who had no chance of a life with permanent parents. I may not be in your shoes right now, Maggie but I have been in them before and I still remember what it was like.

As for whether I would change my mind over time? I know a number of adoptees who are infertile and have never been able to have living children and they would never adopt either, except for the case of an older foster child who has no hope of staying with their biological family and no hope of being adopted.

What does it say about an institution that the products of it, those most affected by it, refuse to perpetuate the cycle?

I'm sorry if my posting has hurt your feelings. Again, this is why I hate posting about adoption. My desperation to not be rejected means I hate upsetting even those people I disagree with.

[Rachel]

69.

I'm chiming in late here, just to say that I agree with what you wrote, that Juno was a fairytale.

My sister relinquished a child for adoption when she was 19. It is an open adoption, and she and the child (now 11) are in regular contact and see each other once a year or so. The adoptive parents are almost like a part of our extended family. My niece is beautiful and smart and seems well-adjusted and happy. But.

There was a lot of pain involved. My sister certainly did not just go on with her life, the way Juno did in the movie. They made it all look far too easy.

I also disliked the way the movie implied there was something wrong or strange about open adoption. I can say that I really believe my niece has benefited from contact with my sister. And the loss for both of them would have been far greater in a closed adoption.

[Sonetka]

70.

Haven't seen the movie, don't plan to (I'm using my free afternoon tomorrow to be, I hope, thoroughly creeped out by _The Orphanage_). I also have not adopted, nor am I an adoptee. So these are some points coming from the outside, for what they're worth.

- I think self-selection bias may be at work here. I started my infertility LJ because I was unhappy about it, a lot of others have done the same. I was startled later on to meet women who had discovered their infertility and not been *that* torn up about it. But why would I meet them online? They didn't want or need that outlet. I imagine the same would hold true for adoptees and birthmothers; the ones who start blogs specifically ABOUT these things are not happy about it or the system in general. If they are, why would they want to unload their feelings about it in a blog? Then people start linking and knowing each other, and it's easy to get the impression that "most adoptees feel this way" when the fact is outside of a giant, comprehensive study, we just don't know. I read a couple of blogs by adoptees who barely ever mention the fact - I only know because it came up incidentally. They don't blog about adoption issues, though, so who knows how they feel? I also know a couple of (adult) adoptees who have adopted children, some of them adopted very young. I haven't talked to them about it - I don't know them nearly well enough for that - but they are "perpetuating the cycle." Knowing them, I doubt they're blogging about that either.

This is NOT to say that the birthmothers and adoptees who have posted here have not experienced real pain. It's just to say that, much like infertile blogs, people in pain over the same issue tend to come together for support and reinforce each other.

- After a while, respect demands that you take people at their word. This can be both good and bad. Birthmothers may fear losing contact with their children and so not want to admit to being unhappy, adoptees may be afraid of letting their parents down, adoptive parents may be worried sick that they'll never be "good enough". Obviously a How are you, fine, that's great isn't enough. But past a certain point, it's not productive to keep probing someone for how they "really" feel. If a birthmother says that the decision was painful but she thinks ultimately it was the best thing to do, maybe she's NOT in denial. If an adoptee says they're glad it happened, maybe they are. Similarly, birthmothers and adoptees who wish it had never happened should be taken seriously. What I find disturbing is the "Well, they wouldn't tell *you* because of XYZ" meme. If a birthmother says she regrets it, adoption was a bad choice which left her in pain. If she says she'd do it again, she's probably secretly regretting it and in denial. How can adoption ever "win" as a choice when you reason like that? What should Liana do, nag her daughter's birthmother until she gets the "right" answer? That's incredibly disrespectful of the birthmother and her choice.

- Kristin, in case you weren't being flippant; giving money to a family with children in a bad situation will often only make things worse. Money helps, certainly (I'm writing from the perspective on someone living on 22K a year, so while we're all right we know what it is to be pinched). But if a family has problems with abuse or neglect or simply not *wanting* to be parents, money only exacerbates it. It's not as if money has solved Britney Spears's parenting problems.

[bombaygirl]

71.

I haven't read all the comments above, because I just wanted to comment on your post. I felt the same way about Juno. I too, cried when Jennifer Garner felt the baby move. It was heart rending. And yes, there were people around us that laughed. I told my friends as we were leaving the theater that it was very clear who were parents and who were not.

[maggie]

72.

Aurelia - you did not hurt my feelings at all. I actually enjoy these types of conversations. I too have POF - it sucks. I am just one of those women who wanted a family and would do what I needed to do to get it. Yes it was ethical and legal and it cost money, lots of money. And yes, I would have paid MUCH more if they asked me for it - just being truthful. I would have paid anything they wanted for my daughter. I know to a certain extent it is a business. Truthfully, I dont care. (I am sure this comment will open the floodgates but it is the truth - and if any adoptive parent is honest with themselves they will agree with me). She is worth more than every material thing I have. Bottom line is that if you want to be a Mom you should have the opportunity. I dont disagree that an older foster child is a great adoption choice but it was not my choice. My choice was great too, just different. As much as we may disagree on the way we got here, we both still get to be what we want, Mom's. :)

[Aurelia]

73.

Sigh, that's right, only bloggers with problems would ever blog about them. Infertile women without blogs aren't upset about infertility, right? By that logic, we can dismiss every single thing adoptees say online, because after all, there must be some vast population of mythical happy ones.

*eyeroll*

We haven't met, so I'm going to just say that for over twenty years I've been active in adoption reform in real life, and I've met hundreds of adoptees, both in casual settings and formal ones. I can speak for myself, and I think I can repeat what they have told me with some accuracy.

To clarify, I never said that Liana should assume the birthmother was upset. I simply said that she should have no assumptions, and that unfortunately she will never know the truth.

So, no adoption can never win as a choice, not in the way adoption is practiced in the US and Canada for the last 80 years. A bizarre system in which judges rewrite a child's race, religion, name, health history, geaneology, everything...for hundreds of years adoption was practiced as a form of permanent guardianship after children were orphaned. They did not lose inheritance rights, or their identity, or their names, and they got permanent loving homes. This is the way adoption for orphans is still practiced throughout many African and Asian nations, works perfectly.

And if after all the back and forth on this thread, maybe you can understand why some bloggers who are adoptees never mention it. Some of us have emailed privately. They tell me they are always floored at the firestorm when I dare to blog about it, and simply don't bother themselves. It's not worth it.

I'm off to dinner. Good night all.

[Sonetka]

74.

Aurelia, I wasn't dismissing you at all, and I did not intend to imply what you said. What I was trying to say, basically, is that self-selected samples can give misleading results. Unhappy people have more motivation to campaign or vent (the example every textbook gives is Ann Landers asking parents whether they regretted having their children). I did not say that not having a blog means an infertile woman is happy. I said that someone who's not particularly bothered by infertility is less likely to keep a blog about it. There's a distinct difference there. Ditto for adoptees. I'll defer to your experience with all the adoptees you've met, but I was not intending to attack them or say that some gigantic hypothetical population of happy adoptees somehow trumps their experiences - in fact, I went out of my way to say that it didn't. I was merely comparing the situation and saying that we are both to some degree self-selecting populations.

[Amie]

75.

I haven't seen Juno yet, but I will. Thank you THANK YOU for intro'ing me to Kateri...I read her entire birthmother archives and it opened my eyes to the side not seen.

It's funny, for years I always said that I didn't think I could adopt and I could never put my finger on why...I know now that I could if I could have a truly open adoption and be in contact with that child's firstmother...sorry, I'm rambling now lol...

76.

I find it ironic that we're all so interested in choice, yet juno's choice is somehow unacceptable. if you believe in choice, let's be intellectually honest and follow it all the way, shall we?

[Stacy]

77.

I did a post about my thoughts on the movie. Basically it was this: Does Diablo Cody have the responsibility for educating the world at large about the complexities of adoption? Shouldn't we in the adoption community take this on ourselves? To me the movie was about the way Cody could string words together and the performances that were given. Adoption was treated very badly. But the movie... I still really liked it.

[kt]

78.

This is an interesting discussion. I thought I had left this discussion but find myself returning to it, almost complusively. To the person who said of course my brother feels wounded by his adoption but won't admit it because of fear of hurting his adoptive family, all I can say is that you don't know my brother at all. What I can say is that he has much more resilience and emotional maturity than anyone I ever met. I do believe there is physical and emotional pain when a newborn and her mother are separated, even for short periods of time, based on my unscientific study population size of 1, and feel that the postnatal setup in most US hospitals ignores those feelings (and that many OB nurses actively encourage the separation, even when the mother is "rooming in"). The sense of loss I felt when the hospital refused to allow me to see my perfectly healthy daughter for 5 hours after I delivered under general anesthesia is probably what sparks my interest in the primal wound theory. My question is for the person who says there is a body of medical literature to support the primal wound theory. I am interested in looking some of this up, but when I search PubMed I get zero hits. Could somebody give references?

[Aurelia]

79.

You won't see primal wound listed in PubMed, since those are words primarily used in psychology. Most of the research is listed under maternal infant separation, which has 621 hits, some good some crap.

One good one talks about how early separation can cause alterations in gene expression of serotonin receptors as adults.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17287521?ordinalpos=24&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

If that link won't show on the blog, perhaps Cecily will kindly forward it to your email?

Pub Med doesn't always have newer citations, it can be up to two years behind when results are known within the medical community at large. So if you are truly wondering about all this, ask a shrink or a neurologist or a prof in this area.

[Amy]

80.

I waited to read this post before responding, and I am waiting to read the comments until after posting. When I was 17 I found myself pregnant. I am pro choice but chose not to terminate. I had an abortion a year before and never got over it. No I didnt feel like I killed my baby, I don't believe it was a baby yet. I felt like I ended what could have been. Like I started down a track and suddenly found myself on another. I had been interrupted. I chose to carry this baby to term and give it up.
I was amazed at how closely Juno's story followed mine. No I wasn't cute and witty but I did pretend it didnt matter, I did pretend I wasn't in love with the babys father and amazingly, I said the same words when I told my mother I was pregnant.
Yes I was crushed, the first two years were a blur, and yes it did hit later. It crushed me out of no where.
I also could be seen not long after her birth, back out with my friends, laughing, drinking, staying out late. Yes we both suffered.
The part of the movie where she gives birth, where the adoptive mother comes to visit, where she and the father are crying and alone in the hospital room. My daughter and I both sobbed because it was our story too. I felt like she was never mine, her father chose not to see her. We both cried in my hospital room. Then we went on with our lives changed though they were.
This was my story and I thought it was a great movie.

[kt]

81.

I would like to thank aurelia for the link and search hints.

[Kelly]

82.

reading through all of the comments -- I must admit I did not fully appreciate the depth of emotion surrounding the adoption issue. I can understand the angst over Juno a bit better -- seemed like a white wash, no? All I can say is the film offered one snap shot of Juno's life post pregnancy/adoption. Would it have been more honest for that snap shot to be one showing Juno in total despair? perhaps.

I really do not know how to approach this issue as I have not had personal experience with unintended pregnancy, infertility, abortion or adoption. But is there really a strong anti-adoption sentiment/movement out there by adoptees and birth mothers? What is the alternative sought?

83.

As an adoptive mom of the most adorable precious little boy, I sometimes feel like I am grieving for his birthmom in ways that I percieve that she didn't do for herself. I look at him and think how could someone just leave him and not look back. I cried through the Juno movie. The nursery scene was heartbreaking for me. While that nursery had other babies my little one was the only child in the nursery on packed maternity floor. The other babies were all rooming in with their moms but my little one was left in the nursery. It mad me sad when Juno just wanted to squirt him out and get on with her life because to me that is what it feels like my little ones BM has done. While we have an 'open' adoption she has not accepted any of the letters or pictures that I have sent via the agency. It feels like she is rejecting our little one.

[Dawn]

84.

To the poster above me. I am a birth mother and I highly doubt that the majority of birt mothers as you say...."just leave him and not look back." You obviously do not personally know a birth mother, you also have absolutely no clue what it is like from the birth mothers perspective. So when speaking of birth mother, don't just assume that we all just walk away without a care in the world. I'd give anything for my daughter or her adoptive parents to contact me. (My daughter will be 20 in June)

Cecily....I must agree on your review of this movie. I also didn't care for it. It could also be because I am a birth mother, in fact, I recently wrote a couple of posts on my blog about revealing to some classmates of mine about being a birth mother. Adoption is so much more complicated than this movie made it out to be. Thanks for the review.

[KatjaMichelle]

85.

A few comments have mentioned that we can't be pro-choice and then upset by the choice made. I'm personally not upset that the movie shows her choosing adoption I'm upset by HOW the movie shows her choosing adoption. And while i can't speak for others I think thats what they are saying as well. It's not the choice it's HOW the choice is portrayed.

[Maureen]

86.

I am so happy I found this website. I have not seen Juno. I am a writer with a novel out called "b-mother"--It tells the story of a first mother in the early 80's, and follows her through the next 18 years of her life. I will see Juno at some point, but I am afraid that it will just get me so mad in how the emotions are dealt with in the movie. On another blogsite, a first mother said she would be interested in seeing who Juno is in ten years--and I agree with that. The issues raised here are all very vital. Thanks for such an engaging discussion.

87.

I just saw this movie today. Like you, I also thought (at first) that this was not an anti-choice movie, but actually a PRO-choice movie. But in retrospect, it really IS a sly ad against abortion -- Juno's call requesting help with "procuring a hasty abortion," the fingernails comment, the couple of references to Jesus and God and "this miracle," the desperately bleak women's clinic and uncaring staff. Very subtle, very underhanded. And equally underhanded WAS the way they made adoption look so smooth, so easy, and afterwards, life goes on with an A-plus for everyone.

However, I don't agree that the movie necessarily SHOULD HAVE depicted Juno as torn and grieving over her choice. I liked that just for once, adoption was portrayed in a different light -- not as something that rips the heart and soul out of the birth mother (which it does for many, but surely not for ALL). This time, for Juno anyway, adoption was a win-win for everyone, herself included.

Sometimes life DOES go on, better than before. Sometimes birth mothers really DON'T want the continued contact of an open adoption. Sometimes they just want to move on and not even own the identity of "birth MOTHER." I don't agree that every adoption movie has to follow a psychological formula. Whenever there is the implication that "everyone goes through the same feelings," or "every case has the same elements," I get suspicious of others putting their agenda on the process.

While I think it's important to acknowledge and respect the trauma that many do struggle with -- during and after adoption -- I also like that just one movie dared to suggest that perhaps not ALL will struggle with loss and trauma in the process.

[Maureen]

88.

After reading these posts I decided to see "Juno" last Friday. I thought the acting was very good and saved an otherwise over-wrought and self-conscious script. Though they did show Juno crying at the end, they did not show her actually saying goodbye to her son. She simply "let go"? The fact that she never actually says goodbye to him indicates to me deeper feelings that the character has, and will need, in future years, to address. I had a hard time accepting that she wouldn't even say goodbye to her child--it made the movie a bit neat and tidy to simply not write that scene--.

[Stilla]

89.

A few things:

- I am an adoptee and an adoptive mother.
- My birth mother was like Juno and did not "look at me" when I was born. We reunited after 21 years and we both are working with issues of HER guilt.
- I spent the first few hours with my daughter, husband, birth mother and birth father and newborn in the same hospital room, sleeping and learning how to be a new mother.
- We are in a successful same race open adoption.
- I enjoyed Juno for what it was-- a movie. I was not looking for Juno to be the ideal or teach the world about adoption. It was witty, cute and I removed myself from the situation and enjoyed the flick. That is all. I hated Jason Bateman's character and had no prob with Jennifer Garner adopting the baby as a single parent (she did need some therapy though) ;)

Just a few other notes about adoption. I can honestly say that the "primal wound" has not manifested in me in 32 years. I'd love to hook up some leads on my brain and see what neurological process happens when I experience trauma or pain and relate it to adoption. I think that it's highly unlikely that "because I'm adopted" that I have issues. Both of my adoptive parents have passed away and I feel that life with them was sweet. I acknowledge my birth mother, but to be honest, she is not my mom. She gave birth to me. I call her mom today out of respect.

[Sara]

90.

Great analysis. I didn't like "Juno" at all -- and comedy, my a$$! I was very turned off by the sudden seriousness of it, when all the critics had called it "quirky" and "funny." Me no likey.

[Adoptive mother in Florida]

91.

I took my 15 year old adopted daughter to see the movie, and didn't last past around 15 minutes. The cavillier attitude of Juno was quite upsetting to my daughter, and we left.
She is pro-life, as I think most adopted childern are. We knew it had a happy ending.
She won't even talk about it. I am at a loss.

[Adoptive mother in Florida]

92.

I took my 15 year old adopted daughter to see the movie, and didn't last past around 15 minutes. The cavillier attitude of Juno was quite upsetting to my daughter, and we left.
She is pro-life, as I think most adopted childern are. We knew it had a happy ending.
She won't even talk about it. I am at a loss.

[Lorrie]

93.

YES, Liana, YES!!!

Adopted 1959
Birthmother told doctor she never wanted to hear from me.
Made contact in 1992
Told to please never contact her again
Notified her in pleasant, generic Xmas card that I had fibro 2008
Received no response

Raised by loving adoptive parents
Feel sad not about adoption but that birthmother wants no part of me even 49 years later.

Adopted 1999 and 2001 from lonely orphanages in China where children were fed by propping bottles in crib.

Two children are happy, healthy, have thriving school careers, a great social life, good grades in school, and a future that will include the freedom to pursue their dreams.

Feel very lonesome and sad only because I WISH every birth mother cherished a dream to reunite with their children as friends. And I can only imagine how sad my kids will be when they learn that they were simply plopped onto a busy street and have, realistically, not the slightest chance of meeting their birth mother.

Feel very angry on behalf of adoptive parents who did the best job they could.

Too busy feeling grief at seeing my beloved adoptive father's gravesite and my beloved adopted mother's brain slowly turn into swiss cheese thanks to Alzheimer's and fighting fibromyalgia to dwell much on things that just are.

It is what it is.

[A 16 year old.]

94.

I’m 16 years old. I thought a teen's opinion should be added. Yes, Juno does touch some sore spots on the topic of adoption and I think also abortion. If you look at it at a teen's point of view instead of an adult you we see it very differently, after all wasn't the movie made for teens. If it was indeed more like Lifetime then most of us wouldn't even take a second glance at it due to or immaturity, yes i just called myself immature. Juno reflected what most teen's are, sarcastically confused. The fingernails part wasn't a joke, to me to think that something not even born yet already has developed parts like fingernails is amazing. Oh, and yes the ending was a little far fetch, but it represented the small love story within the movie. I know adoption isn't something that’s cute and mothers who give away their babies go through stressful stages, but its a choice made by millions of people, most who have good intentions involved. That’s just my opinion on it.

[A 16 year old.]

95.

P.S. Sorry for the typos, I forgot to edit.

[Jackie]

96.

I was adopted at the moment of my birth, I never met my birth mother until recently. The family I come from is great but I often wondered what would have happened if my "real" mother had kept me. When I met her I found out: I would have grown up without a dad, No emotional support, no money, no education. My biological mother is a recovering drug addict and I am GOD DAMN grateful I was adopted! Unfortunatley I had a baby girl last year at the age of 14. I loved her and giving her up was the hardest thing in the world. i think now if I had met my biological mother earlier I would have not had sex that day.(I am the result of a teen pregnancy) I think if I had seen and known what she had told me, I would never have gotten pregnant, but i will never know. At 15 almost 16 in the same highschool I still get dirty looks and I often think about if closed adoption was riht ect... That seen where Juno tells Bleeker if he is embarresed because she has the evidence under her shirt and why he going out with someone else ect... That was tough because my boyfriend and I had only been dating 2 months when I got pregnant and it really hadn't been serious until then, when I did tell the about the baby he started crying and then I cried. my adopted parents yelled but relised it could'nt be undone, convinced me to adopt rather than abort. My boyfriend and I stopped seeing eachother after the baby was born, although the realationship wasn't really going anywhere after I told him I was pregnent. In other words i am grateful for adoption because i would have grown up in a terrible situation, and so would my daughter

[Jackie]

97.

I was adopted at the moment of my birth, I never met my birth mother until recently. The family I come from is great but I often wondered what would have happened if my "real" mother had kept me. When I met her I found out: I would have grown up without a dad, No emotional support, no money, no education. My biological mother is a recovering drug addict and I am GOD DAMN grateful I was adopted! Unfortunatley I had a baby girl last year at the age of 14. I loved her and giving her up was the hardest thing in the world. i think now if I had met my biological mother earlier I would have not had sex that day.(I am the result of a teen pregnancy) I think if I had seen and known what she had told me, I would never have gotten pregnant, but i will never know. At 15 almost 16 in the same highschool I still get dirty looks and I often think about if closed adoption was riht ect... That seen where Juno tells Bleeker if he is embarresed because she has the evidence under her shirt and why he going out with someone else ect... That was tough because my boyfriend and I had only been dating 2 months when I got pregnant and it really hadn't been serious until then, when I did tell the about the baby he started crying and then I cried. my adopted parents yelled but relised it could'nt be undone, convinced me to adopt rather than abort. My boyfriend and I stopped seeing eachother after the baby was born, although the realationship wasn't really going anywhere after I told him I was pregnent. In other words i am grateful for adoption because i would have grown up in a terrible situation, and so would my daughter

[patty breitmeyer]

98.

just saw Juno last night. I was a pregnant single woman intending to have an open adoption and rescinded three days after the birth. It was the most terrifying and painful moment of my life. God knows what the attachment of a mother to a new-born feels like- I didn't until she was born. Juno barely acknowledged that.